hmmm_hmmm
Forum Senior
Topics: 16
Posts: 105
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^that is a rumor.
in USMLE you dont compete againt each other, but the test itself.
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| sigh
Forum Guru
Topics: 36
Posts: 467
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I disagree, they score you on bell-shaped function, so it can be some correlation...So, my advice if you are not in a hurry don't take exan in May-August...just for safety issues.
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| gray10
Forum Junior
Topics: 4
Posts: 80
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You are compared to, I think, a past sample of all AMGs taking test(this is likely to be over a few yrs not months).
This is only revised every so often (every few yrs, last time by increasing passing score).
It is a bell shaped curve designed so that 10% of AMGs fail.
In theory it is possible for everyone to past test since, the pass mark is
already set.
So helping other people pass will not affect your score.
IMGs have no effect on graph and are not used to form the bar graph.
The purpose of test shows how good you are relative to AMGs.
Currently 94% of AMGs are passing exam so I think
the test is going to get harder.
Also if the entry marks to get into med school increase, you are
competing against a smart gp of med students every yr.
So my take on exam , is take it as soon as possible to avoid
each new yrs medical grads.
Also most people take test when they can study, and to make sure scores are reported
for interviews, which is reason most people take test at certain time.
So by all means avoid the most logical time to take test if you have another yr to spare.
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| hmmm_hmmm
Forum Senior
Topics: 16
Posts: 105
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sigh wrote:
I disagree, they score you on bell-shaped function, so it can be some correlation...So, my advice if you are not in a hurry don't take exan in May-August...just for safety issues.
Not true.
you should take some time out and listen to Dr. Daugherty's 2 audio where he explains how this works.
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| sigh
Forum Guru
Topics: 36
Posts: 467
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I am not claiming myself an expert...but can Dr. Daugherty be one? Everyone makes his own decision, evtybody has his own opinion...It is just me...If there is some risk (let it be only 0,1) and it can be avoided I will pass by... I don't mean to scary anybody
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| ultradocmansu
Forum Senior
Topics: 6
Posts: 128
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the forum has more 99s in last months than after august.. in both step1 and 2.. and i dont believe in any such thing..
usmle is a fair game , not like our local board exams where para educational stuff is somehow more important
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| hmmm_hmmm
Forum Senior
Topics: 16
Posts: 105
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sigh wrote:I am not claiming myself an expert...but can Dr. Daugherty be one? Everyone makes his own decision, evtybody has his own opinion...It is just me...If there is some risk (let it be only 0,1) and it can be avoided I will pass by... I don't mean to scary anybody
well he's the head of kaplan..so its his job to know the USMLE inside out....
and what he said makes more sense that anyone i have heard...
so....
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| sigh
Forum Guru
Topics: 36
Posts: 467
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OK, may be it is a good idea for me to listen... thanks...will see
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| GOGETA
Trying to get in PGY1
Topics: 381
Posts: 3,072
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You guys a aware how old OLD are those lectures? OK
now to continue with this I will say that the only people that knows the real truth are the USMLE people.
Also not everyone that say has a 99 actually has a 99, I remember that nnl,p4a99 and me made some type of campaing so people could be a little more honest about their grade and we start seen people in the 80's and some in the 77-79 range.So not everyone that says has a 99 has a 99.
Also It does not mean that people here are not getting a 99.
For what I have notice this forum is full with 99ers and Im just here with my presence to screw the statistic a little
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| hmmm_hmmm
Forum Senior
Topics: 16
Posts: 105
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Dr. daugherty's lecture isnt that old. It clears up a lot of rumors that are prevalent on these forums about exam grading.
and i dont know why you posted the hosh posh about people are not honest about having a 99; it has nothing to do with the topic.
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| usmlekiller
Forum Guru
Topics: 18
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and i dont know why you posted the hosh posh about people are not honest about having a 99; it has nothing to do with the topic.
[/quote]
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| DRFP
Forum Guru
Topics: 40
Posts: 708
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The score is a Compared score it says it right on the score itself:
On the 3-digit scale, most scores fall between 140 and 260. The mean score for first-time examinees from accredited medical schools in the United States is in the range of 200 to 220, and the standard deviation is approximately 20. Your score report includes the mean and standard deviation for recent administrations of the Step.
Score information for each Step, including performance data by group, is posted each year for the previous year's examinees:
http://www.usmle.org/General_Information/general_...
This is right from the USMLE site itself, not Kaplan or Uncle Joe but the ones who are scoring the test!
Your score is compared and adjusted as it says.
The score is a statistical score, it can go up and down based on the group of scores its compared to.
I think its clear there, It shocked me to realize this before I took it the last time.
I should not have taken it in June I'm taking it in Nov fewer US grads then.
The purpose of this is simple, they are not going to fail the majority of medical students, you have to do as well as the Majority taking the test at that time, so a 185 may be a 184 at a different time of year since it is a compared score. I think this is not an opinion but a fact. You are not going to change my mind on this. Unless the USMLE changes the above definition.
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| hmmm_hmmm
Forum Senior
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Posts: 105
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^perhaps you should have read the link provided yourself.
It clearly says that the grading on USMLE IS NOT A BASED ON PERCENTAGE score - see point number 3.
Therefore, the point that 'i have to get these many qns to be in this percentile' doesnt make any sense.
The standard deviations and mean is calculated from the 3 digit score. You cannot tell what PERCENT did person A get to get a 99 vs Person B who got a 95. The difference may have been 2%, but that resulted in 4 points in 3 didgit score. Its NOT a One to one ratio.
As for the normal distribution, that is possible with any large number of data - as is the USMLE.
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| GOGETA
Trying to get in PGY1
Topics: 381
Posts: 3,072
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hmmm_hmmm wrote:
Dr. daugherty's lecture isnt that old. It clears up a lot of rumors that are prevalent on these forums about exam grading.
and i dont know why you posted the hosh posh about people are not honest about having a 99; it has nothing to do with the topic.
I truly do not know, what are we talking about again?
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| DRFP
Forum Guru
Topics: 40
Posts: 708
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^perhaps you should have read the link provided yourself.
It clearly says that the grading on USMLE IS NOT A BASED ON PERCENTAGE score - see point number 3.
Therefore, the point that 'i have to get these many qns to be in this percentile' doesnt make any sense.
The standard deviations and mean is calculated from the 3 digit score. You cannot tell what PERCENT did person A get to get a 99 vs Person B who got a 95. The difference may have been 2%, but that resulted in 4 points in 3 didgit score. Its NOT a One to one ratio.
As for the normal distribution, that is possible with any large number of data - as is the USMLE.
You want to believe that, this is what I hate, you cannot convince me that the score is the same for the group from 2007 and the group from 2008, I quoted 100% what it says about the scoring yet you and others deny the facts, I think even if a person from the NBME tells you they do a curve you would deny it.
I just received my score report for a computer-delivered Step. Why are there two different scores on the front of the report?
[-] Click HERE to close answers
Both scores reflect your overall performance on the examination. The number of test items you answered correctly is converted to two equivalent scores, one on a 3-digit score scale and one on a 2-digit score scale. Both scales are used for score reporting purposes.
What does the 3-digit score mean?
[-] Click HERE to close answers
On the 3-digit scale, most scores fall between 140 and 260. The mean score for first-time examinees from accredited medical schools in the United States is in the range of 200 to 220, and the standard deviation is approximately 20. Your score report includes the mean and standard deviation for recent administrations of the Step.
Score information for each Step, including performance data by group, is posted each year for the previous year's examinees:
* Scores and Transcripts Page
What does the 2-digit score mean?
[-] Click HERE to close answers
The 2-digit score is not a percentile.The 2-digit score is derived from the 3-digit score. It is used in score reporting to meet requirements of some medical licensing authorities that the passing score be reported as 75. The 2-digit score is derived in such a way that a score of 75 always corresponds to the minimum passing score.
I do not see where you say it is purely what you get wrong or right? It says based on the 3 digit score and the 3 digit score Your score report includes the mean and standard deviation for recent administrations of the Step.
this says it all does it not? "your score includes the mean and standard deviation for recent administrations of the step". If it means other then the way I understand it please explain?
If the score is not ever adjusted then whats the use in SD? Whats the use in two Scores the reflect each other?
No one has ever been able to explain this very well, the NBME likes to keep this a little confusing.
I'm sorry no disrespect intended but I think its not simply the # right and the # wrong, there is adjustment going one here. If you read through all the explanation of the score at the USMLE you will find it confusing, I have, I really think there is compiled score, for instance, how many real Questions did you have on the step one? You do know there are a number of "Test/ Beta" Questions in each set, also there a 3 different step ones, Yes this is true, they are rotated from site to site and time to time, you never know which set you will get or how many real Questions there are, they are also "Graded differently" Depending on which form you get. This has been verified to my satisfaction in the past.
I really do not mean to argue and mean no disrespect
When it comes to this its really a fight, we have to be better then 200 range to pass the real thing. I have been prepared to "Just pass" twice and have not done so, I know what I have to do now and its a really hard burden, but I'm sticking to it.
Also passing is not 70% its not that simple, its more like 68% right.
And for the last time no disrespect but until I read it from the NBME/USMLE I believe that the score is compiled. No lecture, no favorite Dr., no Kaplan, no one will convince me otherwise unless it comes straight from them.
Edited by DRFP on 09/24/08 - 02:14 PM
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| DRFP
Forum Guru
Topics: 40
Posts: 708
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Well what ever I'm sticking to what I believe
But I do not like being told I cannot read I find it rude.
I'm way too upset over this so I have said enough.
If I'm wrong I'm wrong
I do not believe so and it will not make a difference in the end anyway.
good luck all and just do your best.
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| hmmm_hmmm
Forum Senior
Topics: 16
Posts: 105
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^why are you writing essays?!
you keep saying 'no disrespect' - well you didnt offend me. This is an online forum, and I am not of any significance to you, and vise versa.
Its simple logic.
The USMLE gives you a 3 digit score which is NOT based on percentage.
Its based on levels, like for example, getting 75-77% of the qs right, you can get either a 254 or 256 or 258. Its NOT on a 1:1 scale, but 'levels' of score. Similar to a GPA scale, but not quite.
Its not a percentage score when you give a 3 digit score. Therefore, no one can say for sure HOW MANY QNS DID YOU GET RIGHT TO GET A 237 or 244 or 220. No one knows.
You can only approximate.
Thats all.
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| hmmm_hmmm
Forum Senior
Topics: 16
Posts: 105
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GOGETA wrote: I truly do not know, what are we talking about again?
what are we talking about?
well the question to that answer, my friend, you would get from reading post number 1. Try that.
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| gray10
Forum Junior
Topics: 4
Posts: 80
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I think it does not matter when you sit exam.
I think the qs are randomised, therefore no sets, if their were sets it
would be too easy to cheat.
I would think they would have a qbank of 2 to 6,000 qs which are randomly
selected. like uw.
each qs would have a weigh difficulty.
so if you got q wrong and 90% of other people got it rt, this will cost you
more in scoring than if you got it wrong and only 10% of other people got it rt.
So the secret to the test if , there is one is to make sure you are
getting qs rt that other people are getting rt, otherwise it will cost you
big time in score.
so all qs are not equal..
obviously why usmle has test qs, is to have qs where about 60- 65 % of all students
can get them rt. thus they can then use the q to compare people. if too many
get it rt or wrong it is useless to differentiate good or bad students.
that is why uw is so good, and why everyone is getting better scores.
And why new qs are getting harder.
see Askdoc for better answer.
How usmle can change the % of people passing is just to introduce harder qs ie where
a lower % of all students are getting qs rt. however because it is a standardised test
they can not change more than 5 to 10% qs of qbank at any one time, otherwise it
will ruin the standardization between yrs. Thus the only other way of failing more people is to increase the passing score.
On my school marks now , I would not get into med school. So I would say the average med student is smarter if they keep increasing entry marks for med school.
GL
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