ruecfmg
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Dear BBB:
Here is my dilemma. I am an LPC (Licensed Professional Counselor) licensed in two states (used my Master’s in counseling). I have worked for about 3 years as a clinical manager and mental health counselor. Naturally I have gained psychiatric experience since the psychiatrists were working by/using the psych rehab treatment plans prepared by me (yes, that is how the system really works -- psychiatrists basically do not know the Pts, see them for 10 minutes or so, rely a lot on your Tx plan and ongoing evaluations, prescribe and then are gone until the next meds review). Since by definition Clinical Manager is the “head of the clinical team”, I routinely had to contact other (non-psych) healthcare providers for referrals, etc. My regular duties included assessments, intakes, crisis interventions, treatment plans developments, referrals, etc. I also occasionally had to deal with general medical problems of my patients many of whom were destitute and not very educated about available Medicaid benefits. So, the point I am trying to make is that it really was intensive clinical experience. Yet for the last two years I did nothing but studying and testing for USMLE (scored 91&94).
Question: Will this count as US clinical experience in the eyes of most program directors?
Most importantly, I probably do not want to do psychiatry where such background would be most helpful. Rather I want to go into IM.
I understand that there is no universal answer since every PD may have a somewhat different view of it. But can you tell me what a REASONABLE PD might think about it? I have to choose now if I should hustle up an observership, considering the fact that even my experiences are getting stale after 2 years of “USMLEing”, and thus sink deeper in debt, or should I take a paying job and cut myself some slack???? I know that I would match for “a place”, but you see, I have the ambition of matching for some GOOD place. I know that nothing can be guaranteed and no one knows how good is good enough, but where is the confidence range?
I have been probing the programs and by now received about 60 e-mails with responses. I cannot think of a place that would have quoted cut-off scores above 85. Everyone is being awefully politically correct. The “big name” schools even claim that there are NO cut-off scores and that “the whole CV is normally read and considered”. Still, many of those places are extremely hard to get in even for US grads from very good schools. Just figured it would not hurt scouting at the very good places too, you know. But I would like to be realistic, you know, and not too presumptious with my scores and, on the other hand, not to sell myself short.
Sorry for the long posting. I will appreciate your advice. Thanks a bunch.
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It takes ability to reach to the top. But it takes character to stay there.
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
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 Just kidding! And a good question, too!
Will this count as US clinical experience in the eyes of most program directors?
Yes, most reasonable PDs would could this as clinical experience.
Most importantly, I probably do not want to do psychiatry where such background would be most helpful. Rather I want to go into IM.
With what you described (in detail :? ), and your scores - you would be able to get into Internal medicine. When did you graduate medical school? That's another thing to look at.
But can you tell me what a REASONABLE PD might think about it? I have to choose now if I should hustle up an observership, considering the fact that even my experiences are getting stale after 2 years of “USMLEing”, and thus sink deeper in debt, or should I take a paying job and cut myself some slack????
I wouldn't think that you would need to "hustle up an observership" - your scores are very good - they speak for your educational and study skills.
Everyone is being awefully politically correct. The “big name” schools even claim that there are NO cut-off scores and that “the whole CV is normally read and considered”. Still, many of those places are extremely hard to get in even for US grads from very good schools.
Think about it - wouldn't it be illegal to say that we can't accept applications from people with scores below a certain grade? :shock: It's discrimination. Programs have to accept all applications because it's against federal law not to. Now, when an applicant asks me what scores we require, I let them know the average USMLE score for our program. And then I tell them that it's their decision to apply or not (Now, if any of you recognize me now, don't spread it around please :oops: ), and I will say that it's illegal for me to tell them not to apply - because it is.
Good luck!
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| ruecfmg
Forum Newbie
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I graduated in 1999. So it's been 5 yrs now. :| However, it was not my fault since I was not allowed to sit for the exam before, since the school was not in the World Directory of Medical School. My appeals took four years. Still I would have to find a way to refelct this somehow in my personal statemnet so that PDs do not pass on my CV and papers without even calling me in for an interview. Agree, getting the foot in the door is probably the first most important step one can make! :wink:
You are right, PDs cannot suggest that someone should not apply. Still, I was analyzing answers from the programs today and it goes like this:
1. Average schools quote 80 (Few are as precise as 78-82, but the avg. is 80)
2. Worse schools and programs having a harder time to recruit (mostly psych programs): 80-78-75.....
3. Better schools: 85 (relatively few dared to quote 85, and no one - above 85) :wink:
4. The best schools are THE MOST POLITICALLY CORRECT: "NO OFFICIAL CUT-OFF SCORES EXIST". They just phrase it so carefully as "a full CV is always considered". I was checking out their web links where possible, and I think only one program honestly said that they have 0 to 3 IMGs any certain year. That sure is encouraging! Yet, no one would reveal it in email, they all want to come across as welcoming possible bets. Browsing through the personalies of residents (usually available on the same website), you can see what schools those people came from. And to crystallize the "0 to 3 IMGs per year" statement, I did not see a single one! (at least they all were folks with common English names)...... 
Such inderect analysis unveils the truth about political correctness. Bottomline: the higher the standards of the program, the more likely they are to claim that no cut-off scores exist.
So, this is all not to whine! WHAT IS THE WINNING STRATEGY? WHAT WOULD BE THE NEXT BEST STEP TO AUGMENT MY CV?????
I do not mean to be egocentric with my long posts. I hope I am throwing enough "food for thought" into this discussion so that I may be excused.
BBB, you are "Da Man" here and naturally I am appealing to your authority. So tell us!!!!
Thank you again.
Andrew
P.S. Did not someone once say that "brevity is the sister of wit?"
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It takes ability to reach to the top. But it takes character to stay there.
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 33
Posts: 5,225
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And to crystallize the "0 to 3 IMGs per year" statement, I did not see a single one! (at least they all were folks with common English names)......
That's a statement that makes me :lol: mostly because I have residents with Indian names who went to the local medical school so they are AMG's, and residents with western names that went to school in the Caribbean or Africa, so they are IMG's!!
WHAT IS THE WINNING STRATEGY? WHAT WOULD BE THE NEXT BEST STEP TO AUGMENT MY CV?????
[list]Explain why the years from medical school to applying now
Detail your clinical experience and how it directly relates to US medical care
$50 bills on every application would help (just kidding)[/list:u]
BBB, you are "Da Man" here and naturally I am appealing to your authority. So tell us!!!!
Excuse me!! :wink: I am da WoMan!! (But my femininity isn't threatened by that statement, so no apology is needed! )
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| ruecfmg
Forum Newbie
Topics: 8
Posts: 16
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:oops: :lol: :lol: :lol:
O-o-o-o-ops! What a blooper! He-he. Well, my apologies anyway.
Thanks a bunch for the advice... and humor, too.
Andrew
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It takes ability to reach to the top. But it takes character to stay there.
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