bailey
Forum Newbie
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So here's the thing. I was looking for a research postion when a friend told me that his dad might be able to help me find something, as he is a big shot at a big school. Inicially, I didn't want to ask for help but after talking to my friend, I asked him to mention it to his dad. What came after that was a big shock to my friend and myself. ( even he won't admit it.)
My friend calls me back after having spoken to his father about me and any possiblity of helping me find something.Here's what the dad had to say in short. Go back home (the only reason I went aboard was to study medicine), complete a residency program and then come back to the US; research will not benefit me but if I still want it, he can maybe help you find something (but not with him-he's a researcher).He also told me friend that I am a really mess and not at all competative. Furthermore, he critized me for wanting to go into family medicine and peds. All this without even taking a look at my resume!!! To make matters worse, he volunteered to talk to me over the phone if I want some advise.
This guy is so anti-IMG. The worse part is I don't want to call him. I don't want to hear anything he has to say. I am proud of myself and I know what I sat for. But he's my friend's dad....Can I tell my friend that while I can see where his dad's coming from, I don't want to call him.
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| Jackofknives
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Go talk to him, what harm can possibly come out of it?
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| ssrpk
Forum Fanatic
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well, i would say from my own experience...dont put all your hopes in one place,besides there really is no harm listening to his criticism, but think of whatever he said with an open mind, you never know how you might benefit.
and most importantly you have to keep your cool while facing any such criticism.
good luck
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| mukho
Forum Elite
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ssrpk says it all...agree with both the above...sometimes such conversations really bring out some great points
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| new_n_lost
Politically InCorrect
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ssrpk wrote:
well, i would say from my own experience...dont put all your hopes in one place,besides there really is no harm listening to his criticism, but think of whatever he said with an open mind, you never know how you might benefit.
and most importantly you have to keep your cool while facing any such criticism.
good luck
Absolutely right. It will give you a better sense of things after listening to him.
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FORUM RULES-- Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. I get enough exercise just by pushing my luck --P4U World.." The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
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| drshvetasm
Forum Elite
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Make the call. Face the criticism. We IMGs are not gonna have it easy even after we complete residency at par or better than AMGs. But you know what you are, and more importantly you know what u want (that research position). Whatever that guy blabbers is not to be bothered about...think that he's speaking in chinese or cantonese i should say (unless u r chinese) just wait for his frustration or blabber talk to be done and wait for the light at the end of the tunnel and see what he has to offer...if u r interested,take it...if not...just hang up but dont take anything that he says to heart...he..a jerk like that should not have control over ur dreams,aspirations or goals and should not be responsible for u losing the oppurtunity u may deserve and excel at...like this research position.Boy am i turning like Dr House day after day!! 
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| drshvetasm
Forum Elite
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sorry...should be "turning into" i mixed "becoming like" and "turning into" in my head and made it "turning like"
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| Royaldoc99
Forum Senior
Topics: 8
Posts: 119
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I am too sensitive ...So I wont call the doc. But all the above people are right. We IMGs have to take the criticism for who we are. I for one went out of USA to get my degree and now I have to get back into the system. I would not call this doc for a RESEARCH POSITION!!! (Unless I want a career in research). I would call this doctor if it was a RESIDENCY that he was offering me. In that case I would definitely call him up and face all his bla bla that he would like to say to me. And yes, I would listen very carefully to his criticisms because thats where I would need to work on to improve myself. But if its just A USCE that you are interested in with this doc....you dont need to call him. You can always apply to other research opportunities that are out there! (unless you really want to research with him only). And about your friend....I would say dont rely on him about this either. He is probably trying to figure out a way to shrug you off this position since he is being negatively influenced by his dad or God knows what! I would suggest that you keep your friend out of this now. Just forget about it and look for another research opportunity....Dont get discouraged. Keep Looking. GL.
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| cartman
Forum Junior
Topics: 6
Posts: 52
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Go ahead and make the call. Just hold your own. No need to get defensive or emotional in front of him. Be respectful but be yourself. Be proud. IMGs should be proud of themselves. We have to sacrifice so much to achieve our goals. Remember......every experience (good or bad) is a learning experience.
Its just a conversation. You will do fine and will come out a winner no matter what.
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| bailey
Forum Newbie
Topics: 5
Posts: 15
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Well, after reading all the reply, I have decided to call him and I will listen to him. I am a bit sensitive but as an IMG, I need to grow thicker skin. But, in all honesty, this is the first negative situation I have encountered since I decided to study medicine. I have to see this as a learning experience ( like Cartman said).
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| new_n_lost
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bailey wrote:
Well, after reading all the reply, I have decided to call him and I will listen to him. I am a bit sensitive but as an IMG, I need to grow thicker skin. But, in all honesty, this is the first negative situation I have encountered since I decided to study medicine. I have to see this as a learning experience ( like Cartman said).
Hey didnt you know, when we IMGs enter the US we have thickest skin on earth and no matter what they come up with to deter us we give a blank look and say up urz matey.
Good luck He might be informative you never know. 
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FORUM RULES-- Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. I get enough exercise just by pushing my luck --P4U World.." The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
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| paheli
It'sAllAboutGoodKarma
Topics: 151
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Look, we have limited options, as it is. You never know which opportunity will lead to something good. It's good you've decided to talk to him anyway. If it amounts to nothing, just chuck it. Perhaps it will lead to something, directly or indirectly. Truth is, you never know till you try.
I used to be extremely sensitive, but now, when push comes to shove, I've learnt you just gotta do what it takes. I now email/call anyone and everyone who has the faintest chance to offer me a leg up. I don't care if I get rebuffed, rebuked, rejected......all I need to do is succeed once. And, I'll pay back when I'm in a position to do so.
So, go for it, I'll say. Not just with him, but pursue all possible avenues. Good luck!
And, as someone very wise above said, when they try to piss you off, just say 'Up Yours!' [not out loud though, just keep it inside your head for now!  ]
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| Royaldoc99
Forum Senior
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Yeah...I thought about this again last night. The best option in this case is to go for it as paheli said. You never know what will happen. What if he does offer you the position finally!!! Then he will love you ! This is life. We just got to face it. Its like applying to any other job. Will you get discouraged if you dont get your job? NO right??!!! You go back and hit on them again!! And this just reminds me of all the shoutings and barking I had to get used to when I went to India to study medicine....The professors in India really humiliate the hell out of you!!! Trust me...I even got heavily insulted once in class for being a US Citizen just because I couldnt answer a question in one of our vivas.....I just went to my room and spent the day crying and moved on. I am still sensitive now....but I can tolerate small criticisms like "your work isnt good etc". These are actually constructive criticisms if they come from a senior official. However, if someone dares to attack my being a US Citizen or NRI status again I shoot back. So, I guess there is a limit to how much we can tolerate. But in any case, go call him....and prove to him that we IMGs are not little cats who will run away. We do have thicker skin than the US medical graduates.....dont you feel that in you? Common tell me...that you werent ever criticized at your med school? We were humiliated for every tiny mistake we made....You will do fine. Just keep saying "yes sir. Yes sir" to whatever crap he says. If he didnt want you he wouldnt spend time speaking to you ! So, may be you will get the position. So, keep kicking. May be he has had a bad experience with another IMG which he is taking it out on you! Or may be he has a condition that you might not be aware about ( One of our medical school professor and Head of Department is a psychiatric patient diagnosed with Manic Depressive Bipolar dirsorder....You wouldnt want to know what all we had to listen to from him. He would actually call us students in the middle of the night and literally curse us off!! The remaining institution is too scared to fire him !!! Regardless I have the utmost empathy and understanding for psychiatric patients. We just cannot control them. We have to accept them and be nice to them). So, I should be more thick skinned. But my sensitive side still remains.
I somehow however wish that there was law against discriminating against IMGs. We dont deserve to be treated like this. We have gone through so much pain to get where we are today. We should be recognised instead of being considered as garbage.
Edited by Royaldoc99 on 04/30/08 - 02:17 AM
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| Korotkoff
Forum Senior
Topics: 14
Posts: 156
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I agree with all the replies above. You have nothing to lose. Some day, after successful journey you might meet him again and remind him what he said.
drshvetasm wrote:Make the call. Face the criticism. We IMGs are not gonna have it easy even after we complete residency at par or better than AMGs. But you know what you are, and more importantly you know what u want (that research position). Whatever that guy blabbers is not to be bothered about...think that he's speaking in chinese or cantonese i should say (unless u r chinese) just wait for his frustration or blabber talk to be done and wait for the light at the end of the tunnel and see what he has to offer...if u r interested,take it...if not...just hang up but dont take anything that he says to heart...he..a jerk like that should not have control over ur dreams,aspirations or goals and should not be responsible for u losing the oppurtunity u may deserve and excel at...like this research position.Boy am i turning like Dr House day after day!!
Offensive in a way. You made it like Chinese is not understandable.
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| ganesha123
Forum Junior
Topics: 6
Posts: 102
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i agree with royal doc..(wonder if we went to the same medical school..!!).. being an IMG from India..we are used to facing horrible insults from totally useless professors that , i personally have developed into a pachyderm.. the taunts in U.S are atleast much subtle...anything that does not kill u makes u stronger...!! i guess go make that call and c how it goes....!!!
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| Jackofknives
Forum Newbie
Topics: 90
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i wonder how you ever will survive your residency years being so easily offended, like your pgy1 year where basically you are lower than the shit that travels through the sewage pipes, being obused all day till no end. i, myself work in a lab where i was constantly told that im unfit and basically suck at what i do, and i just suck it up and continue my work. such is life mate, until you become the boss, just get ready to bend over and take it up the A**.
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There are many things in this world that can’t be changed no matter how hard you try. That’s why you must not hesitate when the time comes where you have to give it all you’ve got.
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| saam009
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Posts: 15
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tell him 35% doctors in USA is INDIAN,WITH OUT IMG US medical system will collapse in no time.
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| saam009
Forum Newbie
Topics: 7
Posts: 15
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I live in long beach california ,indian population here is very low but still more than 25% top doctors here is INDIAN OR IMG
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| Royaldoc99
Forum Senior
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waaow...ganesha.....you had any US Citizens (like myself) at your med school ? Just wondering. And that HOD with Manic Depressive Bipolar disorder was at your school too? (It just feels nice to bump into someone from my school again! )
Jackofknives.....You just scared me a little about PGY1. I thought the worst of the humiliations was OVER and behind for me in India. Being raised in the US, I know that most Americans dont openly humiliate anybody. They might fail you but they will do that with a smile too. At least they have respect for our citizenship status, country and religion we come from...USA is a free country for that. So, I belive I will be going into a better zone of humiliation than what I went through in India. Correct me if I am wrong please!
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| Royaldoc99
Forum Senior
Topics: 8
Posts: 119
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Some of us should get out there and form the 'IMG Society of America' which can protect IMGs from all this discrimination and which addresses the needs and problems of IMGs in America. The Osteopathic doctors have their own associations. We should have ours too...especially because of extra pains that we go through to get where we are in the Medical Community in America. That will bring about the recognition that we deserve. I am actually taking the USMLE Step 1 now but when I start my residency I will definitely open such a chapter/organisation at whichever hospital I work at. Until then its just a dream hanging on my calendar! Some Day.....
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| ganesha123
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@royaldoc... yup ... but the possibility is high we cud be from the same school...All the best for step 1..!!...having personally observed the treatment of residents in U.S.. i think its much better than in India.. but that is subjective and varies with hospitals...
i guess all we can do is be 'better behaved' and more more courteous in future when we ourselves wud be in the position of IMPORTANCE like an attending or a P.D..!!!
Edited by ganesha123 on 05/01/08 - 09:43 AM
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| Royaldoc99
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Ganesha....what was the reaction of the US Citizens to all this at your med school? Were they crying around like me too? Or were they mentally prepared to suck it all up ? ( I know I wasnt! It was a complete shock to me the first time I got yelled at on my 3rd day of med school....for not tying my hair ( which used to be really short at that time!) .....Those Anatomy demonstrators were horrible!!!! Couldnt let me breathe....How did the US students at your med school react to all this?
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| mukho
Forum Elite
Topics: 6
Posts: 304
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ganesha123 wrote:@royaldoc... yup ... then again most profs in india are bipolar.. but the possibility is high we cud be from the same school...All the best for step 1..!!...having personally observed the treatment of residents in U.S.. i think its much better than in India.. but that is subjective and varies with hospitals... i guess all we can do is be 'better behaved' and more more courteous in future when we ourselves wud be in the position of IMPORTANCE like an attending or a P.D..!!!
Am sure u guys had bad experiences but c'mon...even as a joke...what kind of a statement is 'then again most profs in india are bipolar'!!
I have done all my education till date from 2 different institutions in India and then worked in another 2...i have also observed in 2 hospitals at US...there is a fair mixture of nice and mean ppl everywhere...as for professors in India, at least I can personally think up of a dozen stellar ones, both professionally and personally...
please such sweeping generalisation  ?!!
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| ganesha123
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i am sorry mukho.. as i mentioned it was my personal venting.. but i retract my statement ..
i am a recent graduate from a good institution and dono if u agree but but for reasons not known to me..the standard of teaching and teachers has gone down horribly in lot of premier medical schools ..
Edited by ganesha123 on 05/01/08 - 09:51 AM
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| farnsworth
Forum Newbie
Topics: 0
Posts: 165
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Call your friends dad, find out what he thinks his opinion is based on. Always remember: "People are not chocolates. They are bastard covered bastards with a bastard filling" (Dr. Cox from 'Scrubs')
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