ea
Forum Senior
Topics: 15
Posts: 139
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Hello future residents,
I matched this year 2008 for IM Categorical position at Staten Island Univ Hospital. My credentials are 99/96/CS passed/79/MPH still studying/No USCE/No research/Need visa. The most happiest part is I secured a H1 visa.
I would like to give you VERY USEFUL TIPS FOR MATCHING. These are best applicable to candidates who have ECFMG certificate before Sept 1 and who need VISA.
* Apply on Sept1st. You can upload your program list couple of days before and on Sept 1st you can just pay the amount. This will help you in applying the right programs and save lot of money. I did not knew this, so ended up applying 140 IM programs and it costed me $3000 !
* I WOULD SUGGEST USCE for all candidates going for next years match. Try to get externships, do not hesitate to spend even upto $3000 through Americleckships or any other. Reason being, if you don't match you loose precious one year, around $7000 by the time you finish interviews. So, why hesitate in spending few 1000 dollars? AMG's spend 300,000 dollars, so we shouldn't even hesitate! Always prefer externships over observerships and hospitals over clinics.
* About Step3, the earlier you take the better it is. If you can make it before Sept 1, you will definitely get more interviews. If you ask me is it step3 or USCE, I would say USCE.
*THIS IS THE MAIN SECRET I LEARNT LATE: PREMATCH OR MATCH????
MOST (90%) of interviews we get are from community hospitals, below average programs. If you do not have USCE and publications forget about Univ programs. Be realistic about what we can get in this country. Univ programs like ETSU, North dakota are no better than community programs.
SCHEDULE YOUR INTERVIEWS AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE. Most IMG's get prematched. Reason is simple, the interviews we get are from community programs and they are scared of going to match... SO ALL COMMUNITY PROGRAMS OFFER PREMATCHES.... NO EXCEPTIONS!
" IN ONE SENTENCE- ALL YOUR INTERVIEWING HOSPITALS WILL OFFER PREMATCHES"
So, there is no point going for match, because more than half of their seats will be filled before match!
* I again repeat, arrange all your interviews early and do well in interviews and get a prematch- THERE IS NO POINT FOR IMG'S LIKE ME TO GO TO MATCH. Be realistic dudes!
* In my case, I scheduled most of my interviews in Dec and Jan, by than most programs gave all prematch positions! I was very scary about getting matched, but by God's grace I could get a position in match. In my class from my college around 24 applied this year, 8 got prematched, 6 got matched and rest remained umatched.
* Few unmatched profiles I know were- double 99, double>95, double>95 and many other good candidates! Lesson to be learnt- " GET A PREMATCH, DON'T BE IN UNREALISTIC DREAMS!" Unless you have USCE/ Publications don't even dream of Univ programs.
Some of you might find my conclusions inappropriate. But these tips are intended to those IMG doctors, with mediocre profiles, need visa and going through tough financial situation. Play smart and try to get a position and don't worry about where you end up at.
Thanks.
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| paheli
It'sAllAboutGoodKarma
Topics: 150
Posts: 1,979
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Thanks for your post, ea. It's very helpful. Good luck in intern year! 
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Prepare as if you're the worst, Perform as if you're the best! As you dream, so you manifest. So, DREAM BIG!! When you face hardship, remember, God never gives you more than you can handle. Success is the best revenge! He's my boyf! And, yea, I'm lying...:-(
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| doc1981
Forum Senior
Topics: 12
Posts: 193
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Excellent post.. Thank you so much and all the very best for Residency! 
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| angel^Doctor
Forum Elite
Topics: 31
Posts: 440
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Thanks a alot!
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| jole
Forum Elite
Topics: 6
Posts: 246
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Thanks a bunch ea.Its a really helpful thread.
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| GLO MD
Forum Guru
Topics: 9
Posts: 810
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I don't think I totally agree with your remarks just because you are using totalitary words (ALL, NONE, NEVER, ALWAYS) and I have learned in life that you should not use those. For instance not all community hospitals offer pre-matches, and I know a few that don't. And I specially disagree with your remarks on having to take pre-match or else you are doomed.... many people told me that when I got a couple of pre-matches... I stood by my dream and was confident in myself and God and I waited, landing on my number one choice and I thanked God that I didn't listen to them otherwise I would've been in a program in which I'm not entirely happy.
So I think your post is a little exagerated and based on your personal views, therefore I would take it with a grain of salt and I'm just writing this so that people who is going for the match next year know that there are more options than just taking a pre-match if you are not really interested in that program. The match is not that terrible!! remember everybody is going to speak about the party according to their experiences in it... so you will always find people that did not get what they wanted and therefore "hated the party" and there will also be people that "loved the party" because they had good results....
.....therefore YOU future applicant should listen to both sides and try to balance them to make a wise decision for yourself... My post here is just that balance... I'm not saying go for the match (because I would obviously say this since I loved the "party") or get a prematch... I'm just giving you another view of how the match works for an IMG... take them both and make your choice... but as a rule of thumb you should have in mind the law of the "fav 4", meaning that if you get a pre-match from one of your fav 4 you should probably really consider it, specially if it is among your fav 3......
best of lucks for everybody going for the 2009 match! It is quite a ride but if you manage to dodge the bullet you will get a great reward!!
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| arlete
Intern in 2009!!!!!
Topics: 25
Posts: 1,788
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I think your intentions are good, ea, but I agree with GLO MD. Each case is unique, there's got to be a balance and good common sense use. I know community programs that are very good and do not offer prematch. I know people who did not accept prematch, were not that strong applicants and still got into their first choices.
And I wouldn't take into consideration the fact that American graduates pay 300000 dollars and compare with my situation. I paid for my education already, not as much, but not cheap either. And Americans pay for a sure thing, we don't! You may invest a few more thousand dollars and end up unmatched anyway. No magic formula around!
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| JACKDANIELS
Forum Newbie
Topics: 5
Posts: 50
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I read both GLO MD's post and ea's post which apparently say opposite things but essentially both are true experiences.
My take on the subject is not all IMG's are created equal.
In the order of preference
First is the USFMG who went to carribean schools and had rotations in US( thus the 1-2 yrs of USCE)
Second is USFMG who went to Other med schools all over the world but is basically a US citizen.
Third is a green card holder FMG(e.g went to some asian or african med school) born and bread in another country but now is US via immigration.
Fourth is the visa needing FMGs.
By no means I am saying one is better than the other as a doctor but there are so many other things to consider. The first category is a US citizen who actually has experience working in the US health system (not as an observer) essentially the same way an AMG student works here. These are highly desirable, getting 2-3 prematches, declining those and still be able to match.
When we come to the last category, these visa needing FMGs with very good scores (but not an exceptionally great CV e.g publications or US reasearch) I think receive fewer prematches(0-1) and should take it right away.
Ofcourse the above is a generalization and many exceptions exist. So the advice is not universal for every FMG but based on individuals own situation e.g financial responsibilties and obligations, competitiveness and Visa status.
Goodluck all.
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| paheli
It'sAllAboutGoodKarma
Topics: 150
Posts: 1,979
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Glo, arlete, your posts are good, as usual. Though I'd agree with you, that it's never a good idea to use strong words like 'never' or even 'always', the truth is that for many IMGs, the stats are not good these days. In this past Match, 42% IMG applicants matched. Though this is not inclusive of those who prematched, I don't think the number will cross 50% if you added them in.
I cannot verify some of what ea has said, esp about the progs which do/do not offer prematch etc and I do not agree with everything that she/he said, such as regarding utilizing Americlerkships etc, but other points like how and when to apply and schedule IVs is good info.
But, again this is only my opinion, and I wouldn't want to impose it on anyone else.
Revving up for Match '09........
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Prepare as if you're the worst, Perform as if you're the best! As you dream, so you manifest. So, DREAM BIG!! When you face hardship, remember, God never gives you more than you can handle. Success is the best revenge! He's my boyf! And, yea, I'm lying...:-(
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| decide
Forum Senior
Topics: 7
Posts: 133
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Even I wont agree to take any prematch that you get. Many at times the program which offers you a prematch and if the program takes a gud number of its seats to match will rank u high if u decline the offer courteously. Many community programs offer very few prematches and all community programs dont come in one blanket category. If u have few ivs, feel insecure after attending the ivs, accepting a prematch offer would be gr8. If u have a gud number of ivs, feel dt sme programs mite be interested in u after the iv, going to match wont be a very bad idea. Also lot has been said abt trusting pds words. Some programs dont say much but rank u high anyway and some say the same gud things to every applicant. In the end it all depends on u, if u want to be secure by taking a spot where ever u get or giving a shot at match where u mite get a better program or atleast u would be satisfied dt the final result went through an algorithm where u gave a shot at the best program first.
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| neurodoc
Forum Newbie
Topics: 0
Posts: 1
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Hi I have to agree with EA because he was NOT talking of the "Golden IMG" with credentials of 99, 99, CS passed, recent graduate, USCE, Peer reviewed publications, but of the typical IMG with > 95 scores, sometime between graduation and application, no significant research or publications, and work permit requirements. Bottomline is, decide whether you belong to one of the above two categories and if belonging to the first category go with GLOMD or if of the latter category grab the prematch and do not regret it.
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| moe214
Forum Senior
Topics: 10
Posts: 120
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"because more than half of their seats will be filled before match! "
16 programs that i iv'd started with 255 seats..7 of'm did not offer prematch..on feb 27th there were only 122 seats left..5 programs filled 90% of their seats w/prematch and i'm not "GOLDEN IMG" and my $180,000.00 saliemae loan is accumulating $1500.00 of interest every month..so in my situation i dont even give a 2nd thaught to accept a prematch..
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| ea
Forum Senior
Topics: 15
Posts: 139
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Hello guys...
I knew some people will not agree with me, but I want to reiterate the fact that, these are more applicable for IMG's who need visa, with tight financial situations and NO CONTACTS what so ever!
As far as my knowledge goes most community hospitals offer prematch, I wonder why to keep future match participants in wrong notion? It is simple to understand, why would an AMG do IM in a community setup? He can easily grab a university position.
I see some posts in this forum asking for which programs offer prematches, my answer would be 90% of your interviewing hospitals will offer! Again, this is for IMG's who need visa and have NO USCE/ Publications.
In my case, I got a match and it was 3rd in my ranklist. I had close to 17 interviews. Let me know if I can share more views regarding this.
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| mazinger
Forum Guru
Topics: 46
Posts: 914
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ea wrote:
Hello guys...
I knew some people will not agree with me, but I want to reiterate the fact that, these are more applicable for IMG's who need visa, with tight financial situations and NO CONTACTS what so ever!
So true, so true.. it may seem a little radical, but so true...
Life could be extremely harsh at the end of the road, and not that many imgs have outstanding creds as you have GLO  ..
Unless you are stellar, going through the match is a reasonable option, if you are just average go for prematch... BTW there is nothing wrong with being average!
EA one more thing double 99s dont make you stellar right?? I was almost left unmatched  ..
GL
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| ea
Forum Senior
Topics: 15
Posts: 139
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Very true Mazinger: double 99 will not make you STELLAR! But nonetheless double 99'ers will get more interviews, and they will have edge over others in "community hospitals" but not in Univ programs!
To get in "GOOD" univ programs the best profile would be >95 in both steps, CS cleared, Externships and Good LORS, research and publications, good interpersonal skills. But just 99's doesn't make the profile BIG!
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| smalley
Forum Elite
Topics: 42
Posts: 241
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congrats ea and thanks for sharing ur exp
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| whiterabbit
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Americlerkships !  I hope this is post is not a plant 
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| ea
Forum Senior
Topics: 15
Posts: 139
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Hey definitely not.... my point is " Externships are going to be VERY important for next years match".... they can find them either through contacts or FMG portal or Americleckships or whatever is the agency.
The reason why I'm specifying it with so much importance is " I could have done an externship if someone has told me the importance of it", most people in this world are jealous or I don't know for what reason they hide their success stories. But I would say " we do so much to come till here, why leave something undone or less perfect?" Let the future IMG's give a tough fight for AMG's!
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| ea
Forum Senior
Topics: 15
Posts: 139
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This is Personal message I got from " sarvesh" and I want to post it,
Date Sent: 04/04/08 - 10:43 AM
Dear Ea,
I do agree with you. Iam an IMG 2001 grad with IM residency training from India completed by 2004. 92/99/ certified bef, Sep 1 2 months EXTERNSHIP with 2 US lor's and @ US presentations. Applied to 100+ programs , Got 17 IV's.Attended only first 3 IV's, accepted prematch from a UNi affi Community on H1b. Had only 3 or 4 Univrsity programs. Even U Conn were offering PM to around 40% of seats. I accepted PM bec. the programs with whom I were to interview were planning to offer 70 to 80% PM. So for me, choice left was do or die. This happened to many of my friends. I strongly agree to your suggestions to fresh applicants who are in the same boat. I was adviced by few fauclty members includindg one PDin Med-Paeds, 'your first aim is to grab a residency position'. Ifeel you are right.
Regards,
Sarvesh
Send a PM
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| raba
Forum Newbie
Topics: 4
Posts: 13
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The question about taking a prematch or going for a match is entirely personal and has a number of factors involved. To each unto his own. But just had a point to make with regard to Jackdaniels- in one of my interviews, I asked a cardiologist- 'What attributes are you looking for in a candidate?, What kind would you prefer?' This was at a very prestigious program. He replied 'I would prefer a FMG over a US citizen educated at FM school. The reason being- a FMG who comes here with good scores is consdered cram of the crop where as a US citizen educated abroad would have been unable to make it thro the MCAT into a US med school. '
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