Nephrotic
Forum Junior
Topics: 14
Posts: 45
| | 03/23/08 - 07:40 PM
0 of 1 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #1 |
Hi all ,
i know that the topic i will ask about isn't in its place but i have to ask !
this question is directed to the Americans in this forum , regarding me as an Arabic doctor , will i suffer discrimination in my social life ?? will my life become a hell of anxiety and depression ?? will my future wife ( who will wear head cover btw ) and children suffer ??? if i practice medicine in USA !
i took USMLE step 1 and i still a student in Egypt , a lot told me that moving to USA in these days won't be a smart move !!!
although all what i am after is getting more knowledge and better practice of medicine , not after money or fancy life !
i am really confused , it's my whole life what i am planning for, not easy !!!
thanks in advance .
Edited by Nephrotic on 03/23/08 - 09:04 PM
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| robin082006
Forum Hero
Topics: 471
Posts: 5,125
| | 03/23/08 - 08:02 PM
1 of 1 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #2 |
Discrimination is prohibited in the US.
But you may find it anywhere in the US. Any IMG has to suffer it, not only you. Even it happens to people born in the US, but their accendings from foreign.
Be patient and tolerated. Do not worry about this because other people can survive you do you.
If you find someone discriminating against you and have evidence, you can sue him/her.
Good luck.
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The Key to Succeed is Patience.
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| whiterabbit
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As you sow so shall you reap.............You may find people who might not like you......you find poeple who love you.......But if you are hard working and sincere and courteous in your dealings and interactions America will embrace you.
Love my friend is the answer.....give it freey and you shall recieve more love than you gave.
God bless you my friend and give you wisdom
WR
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| Nephrotic
Forum Junior
Topics: 14
Posts: 45
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thanks guys , you really lighted my way , that's the spirit i was looking for 
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| abusedpostdoc
Forum Junior
Topics: 6
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Be careful - that's all! And stay in big cities - people there tend to be more open minded about foreigners, because they are exposed to more diversity. Detroit is full with people from the Middle East as far as I know.  Just my humble 2 cents on the subject
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| Nephrotic
Forum Junior
Topics: 14
Posts: 45
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thanks abusedpostdoc , i will try to be in big cities , but the residency is the factor here right !!!
so i will do extra effort to make it good residency .
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| Justice
Forum Fanatic
Topics: 101
Posts: 1,980
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Nephrotic wrote:
although all what i am after is... not after the American dream bullshit !!
You have to work on your goal... Why do you want to be loved by Americans, after you called their dreams bullshit? If you do not respect this culture, nobody will respect yours one, including those cultural practices you just mentioned...
DO NOT come into this country before you learn how to be al least tolerant...
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| Nephrotic
Forum Junior
Topics: 14
Posts: 45
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there is a very big misunderstanding Justice , i didn't mean that the American dream is bullshit , i meant i don't want a huge sum of money or a fancy life , i.e the fancy life is bullshit .
hope u get it , and i will remove it from the post for u .
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| nany
Forum Guru
Topics: 14
Posts: 968
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well, this thread really interesting....,
may I add my question please to you americans?, or who live there and know the culture......
here the situation is a little bit more difficult, as I'm a female muslim doctor, and so I'm wearing the scarf over my head and I'm doing the steps looking forward to move and work in USA,
..............and to be honest ; I'm looking for money and fancy life  , sure I'm looking also for better practice environement and much higher technology and knowladge, but I can't say I'm not looking for extra money and better standard of living  ....
so, do you think that I've gone so far with my dream, and I'll not be accepted there in USA, may be also will be rejected from the begining by program directors in the interviews, or there may be some place there for me........
if some one can answer me it will be very much approciated
also I have thought of applying for some branch that don't require much communication with patients as Radiology or Anaesthiology as may be the american patients themselves refuses to allow me to examin them....... , do you think this can help ?
this words I'm saying and thoughts in my mind really makes me sad, as I'm not supposed to be judged according to my religion or what I'm wearing as long as I don't care what is the religion or nationality of my patient as long as he's a patient and needs my help........,
do you know the BSB song which says [ I don't care who you are, where you from, what you do, as long as you ( are my patient )]
thanks in advance guys
Edited by nany on 03/24/08 - 12:18 AM
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" You Are Limited Only By What You Think "
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| Nephrotic
Forum Junior
Topics: 14
Posts: 45
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waiting replies like u nany , but i have a word , if u r in an Arabic nation money and fancy like can be achieved not easily but u can !!!
but knowledge ........... nah i don't think so
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| new_n_lost
Politically InCorrect
Topics: 653
Posts: 6,086
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America and its society is waking up to a lot of things. It will take them time to cross a lot of bridges but it all depends if you are confident on about how you are then no one will take offense. If you dont sterotype the other person there is a 75 % that the person opposite will also not sterotype you.
Moi 2 cents.
Seriously if Obama wins that will be the greatest leap of faith in the American Society.
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| medicus_81
Forum Elite
Topics: 12
Posts: 428
| | 03/23/08 - 10:40 PM
2 of 2 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #12 |
Well, this turns out to be an iteresting thread...
Nephrotic,
I think you shouldn't build up a prejudice against Americans based on what you hear in your home country...Truth is, as long as you are polite, respectful, work hard and collegial you will be respected back. It's all about the attitude. People come from different backgrounds and sometimes discrimination is simply based on ignorance and lack of knowledge. Don't think that it's only in America where you could experience difficulties. After the London attacks, the bombing in Madrid and the public assassination of the documentary filmmaker Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands, Europe is not a nicer place either. I lived in Germany for a long time, had a lot of muslim friends and saw their struggles. Again, it's all about the attitude - some chose to be recluse and gathered only among themselves, bitching about the lack of understanding on the germans' side; others were fully integrated, well known and respected yet at the same time they stayed true to their roots. A lot of foreigners fall in the same trap when abroad - they choose to move only in the circle of their own people. While the wish to preserve one's identity and roots is absolutely understandable, then the complete lack of wish to integrate is to my opinion insane and a guarantee for misery. I see foreigners here in the US all the time, a lot of them have the same thing in common- idealizing the home country and complaining about the US, the American's commercialism and superficiality. Then I say- well then, go back! nothing is holding you here, all of you decided to come freely. making such generalizations is dangerous and counter-productive for your future. Understanding the country you live in is key to your happiness.
@nany,
do not choose your specialty based on how you think your patients will treat you...What about muslim female patients? They would love somewone like you, who understands their culture and would feel much more at ease being examined by you compared to a male christian let's say...
Stay true to your dream!!! Do not let comments bring you down, stupidity and mediocrity is everywhere, stay above with. We are all equal, and God/Alah loves us all.
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If you judge people you have no time to love them
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| Nephrotic
Forum Junior
Topics: 14
Posts: 45
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amazing reply medicus_81 i am really impressed , i put this thread not because i say Americans hate foreigners , but to realize the truth , and frankly your replies made me aware of things i never looked it that way .
thanks
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| new_n_lost
Politically InCorrect
Topics: 653
Posts: 6,086
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medicus_81 wrote:
I see foreigners here in the US all the time, a lot of them have the same thing in common- idealizing the home country and complaining about the US, the American's commercialism and superficiality. Then I say- well then, go back! nothing is holding you here, all of you decided to come freely. making such generalizations is dangerous and counter-productive for your future. Understanding the country you live in is key to your happiness.
So far the best analogy given and its true and before anyone goes thinking something about me I m a muslim and i come from Pakistan so there a double whammy lined up against me only IF I CHOSE TO APPLY IT ON ME.
Otherwise its all cool. Assimilate and make yourself understand and understand others thats why you were educated. And if you cant do that then seriously the fault lies within you not anyone else. Everyone has an ingrained sterotype view but if given an opportunity to change that opinion almost all take that chance to change their view.
Dont get caught in the trap that what would people think. 7out of 10 people will not react to the way thought they would if you were your normal self instead of acting somewhat similar to what they have percieved.
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FORUM RULES-- Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. I get enough exercise just by pushing my luck --P4U World.." The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
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| nany
Forum Guru
Topics: 14
Posts: 968
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medicus_81 wrote:
Well, this turns out to be an iteresting thread...
Nephrotic,
I think you shouldn't build up a prejudice against Americans based on what you hear in your home country...Truth is, as long as you are polite, respectful, work hard and collegial you will be respected back. It's all about the attitude. People come from different backgrounds and sometimes discrimination is simply based on ignorance and lack of knowledge. Don't think that it's only in America where you could experience difficulties. After the London attacks, the bombing in Madrid and the public assassination of the documentary filmmaker Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands, Europe is not a nicer place either. I lived in Germany for a long time, had a lot of muslim friends and saw their struggles. Again, it's all about the attitude - some chose to be recluse and gathered only among themselves, bitching about the lack of understanding on the germans' side; others were fully integrated, well known and respected yet at the same time they stayed true to their roots. A lot of foreigners fall in the same trap when abroad - they choose to move only in the circle of their own people. While the wish to preserve one's identity and roots is absolutely understandable, then the complete lack of wish to integrate is to my opinion insane and a guarantee for misery. I see foreigners here in the US all the time, a lot of them have the same thing in common- idealizing the home country and complaining about the US, the American's commercialism and superficiality. Then I say- well then, go back! nothing is holding you here, all of you decided to come freely. making such generalizations is dangerous and counter-productive for your future. Understanding the country you live in is key to your happiness.
@nany,
do not choose your specialty based on how you think your patients will treat you...What about muslim female patients? They would love somewone like you, who understands their culture and would feel much more at ease being examined by you compared to a male christian let's say...
Stay true to your dream!!! Do not let comments bring you down, stupidity and mediocrity is everywhere, stay above with. We are all equal, and God/Alah loves us all.
well said medicus_81 , very very well said 
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" You Are Limited Only By What You Think "
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| nany
Forum Guru
Topics: 14
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new_n_lost wrote:
Dont get caught in the trap that what would people think. 7out of 10 people will not react to the way thought they would if you were your normal self instead of acting somewhat similar to what they have percieved.
I can't get this part NNL  
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| new_n_lost
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You know what they might think about you, so when you meet them they might have their preconcieved notions/generalizations (about where you come or what background you belong to) running in the back of their minds so if you act hesistantly or bit sort of like what they are thinking, you are then just re-affirming their misconceptions or notions. So just be yourself and their misconceptions will keep on fading away as they come to know you.
In regards to your questions about scarfs my mother wears them all the time and meets a lot of people who do ask her y does wear this and she informs them its her personal decision and they respect that and they are good friends with her. My father prays in his office and his boss respects that.
Americans like people everywhere are influenced by what the media teaches them. But if they find you different from their notions about you, they will be more friendlier and ready to intermingle with you. You will find a few people who are indifferent and will treat you badly you just have to show that you are better than that and rise above the fray.
Thats all. Besides you cant just please everyone there will always be someone who doesnt appreciate who you are and where you come from.
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FORUM RULES-- Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. I get enough exercise just by pushing my luck --P4U World.." The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
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| nany
Forum Guru
Topics: 14
Posts: 968
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got it NNL ,
and thanks for your words, it really make sense , it's just the fear of rejection and of being so apparently different because of what you wear
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| Moozy
Forum Guru
Topics: 46
Posts: 803
| | 03/24/08 - 06:54 AM
1 of 1 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #19 |
Interesting thread!!!
Let me tell you one thing which you should be prepared of. You will have long immigration at airports bcos of your country and religion (mostly men with muhammad in their name). This is a fact. With head covering, you may face extra security checks.. but this is all what happens at airports. After u leave airport, things are better. Dont take me worng, immigration people are very nice. It is just lengthy procedure as they make sure ur name does not match a terrorist.
As far as resideny is concerned, i dont think there should be a problem with ur dress code at interview level or attending level. people respect you if you follow ur religion.
Patients may be a bit scared or curious of you, but ur good ethics should win them. I have a few african american nurses who wear head scarf and honestly i have seen pts misbehave with them, so be ready for that. Having come form Uk, i feel UK is a very tolerant society in comparison to US. I am yet to see a muslim doctor with head scarf (ofcourse at residency level). I am muslim, personally dont think it is safe to wear scarf on streets. People look at you in the scared or wierd way .. my aunt had can of coke thrown at her in NY and one friend had beer bottle thorwn at her in Buffalo with some verbal abuse.
Now comes the main part.. in hsopital, your dress code should be okay and i guess you will know what to expect. Outside hospital, specially leaving in evening, i would suggest you either drive or make sure the area is safe... wierd things happen to regular people anyways.. and a religious dress can spark more attraction to the losers on street who just harrass people. I am not trying to frighten you, but one should make sure they are safe. I live in a big city and even then downtown in evening is not safe.
Good luck with ur residency search. I myself want to wear a head scarf one day; may be whn i move to a different city for my felowhip.. just looking for a safe time period when I can wear. I am not afraid bcos of residency, I am afraid of being picked on streets and the harrasment i may face. May be i am a chicken, but who knows, I wont wait for something to happen. I can always get my boards and then start wearing when i can afford a safe place and environment is much controled at attneding level.
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| nany
Forum Guru
Topics: 14
Posts: 968
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well moozy, your post really puts me in picture......
it doesn't scare me but it makes me aware of what to expect, and every place has its good and bad things and we better get prepared for the bads just in case....
many many thanks
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| Korotkoff
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Hmmm...interesting!
As mentioned above, if you don't have a plan to achieve, don't come to America. What is the point of leaving your own country if you have nothing to accomplish? You have better respect in your own home.
It is natural to feel discrimination away from home. Yes, there are inevitable realities too. Some of the problems arise from being brainwashed. I am not from Egypt but I had Egyptian professors in my Med school. Sometimes we chat out of teaching-learning processes. They used to picture America as a land of 'sin' and 'sinners'. Don't get angry. My intention is not to blame Egyptians. I am showing you the result of being brainwashed. When I landed in the US, I faced so many problems as most of the immigrants do. I tried to overcome those problems. I was surrounded by immigrants from my home country. The food, the drinks and the gossip was just like back home. There was no difference except the buildings are taller than that of back home (in my case). I had to escape that trap. I went to different place where I had no contact with my home country people. Yeap, I learned lots of things. Good and bad.
Oh, forgot to blame some people in the West who always get scared of people from the Middle East. Yes, they are brainwashed too. Sometimes I fail to blame them thinking of what happened to them. You have to show them that you are caring person.
About the lengthy airport screening, IT IS NECESSARY! I can't stress it more. Complaining about airport screening is rediclous.
To Nephrotic,
Americans are good people as far as you talk to them politely and do your job. Three words: Respect, Respect and Respect.
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| nany
Forum Guru
Topics: 14
Posts: 968
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you're right about the brain washing idea korotkoff, it's present and it is present in both sides, and I think one must be very open minded to accept others as they are and don't try to find all what he's used to in his home country...,
we have to prepared that this is tough just because there's no place like home, and there's always an option to return back to your home country in case you didn't get adapted with the situation
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| arizona_wave
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To discriminate at smallest level or bigger level is human nature. In even our own home countries people discriminate by geographical location, religious groups, sects within the same religious group, social status etc etc.
When we come out to another country and esp America which is a hub of people from all over, we expect things are very different here. We expect there is highest level of mutual understanding, everyone has comfortable nice homes and excellent lifestyle in America, nice, happy people, no misery...the picture that hollywood projects and what every country projects of America. Even Americans discriminate among themselves..coast to coast, state to state etc etc
I would say America is one of the most tolerant countries who welcome foreigners. Look at our own countries....how much easy we make it for people from other countries in our homeland? Honestly dont we not discriminate ever on any basis ?
Yes it is always a part of the equation. There are always ignorant people in every country. Either they choose not to acknowledge others or they have never worked with any foreginers before. So brace yourself and do your best. Things can change for anyone at any time from any country when we have immigrated.
As long as we are here enjoy what it has to offer and contribute what you can.
Edited by arizona_wave on 03/24/08 - 02:24 PM
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| Justice
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Korotkoff wrote:
Americans are good people as far as you talk to them politely and do your job. Three words: Respect, Respect and Respect.
I agree in general with Korotkoff, but hate his last statement which I cited... Man, do not make ppl thinking that Americans are like frightful bulls or dogs and it's better politely smile at them while bypassing them on your way to somewhere... No, they are normal people with their own problems...
To person who posted his question: Americans will not even notice anything strange on your face/around your head until you try to make everyone seeing how much you care about scarf on your wife's had... But, from the title of your post it's already clear that you are badly concerned about it. If a matter of flexibility in a modern society and ability to integrate into another culture is a matter of your life or death, you are better not play with your destiny... Stay where you are, and do not challenge your fate...
Edited by Justice on 03/24/08 - 03:01 PM
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| Justice
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arizona_wave wrote:
I would say America is one of the most tolearnt countries who welcome foreigners. Look at our own countries....how much easy we make it for people from other countries in our homeland? Honestly dont we not discriminate ever on any basis ?
As long as we are here enjoy what it has to offer and contribute what you can.
Brilliant words of a wise person...
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