angel^Doctor
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I have some questions that are simple too many but they are confusing to me;
what is categorical and what prelimenary? and if your applying to neuro like some did, if you get matched to prelimenary and neuro what does it mean, you do preimenary first then neuro or what and can they be in 2 different places?
MOD EDIT : The questions asked deserved a separate thread therefore i made one.
Edited by new_n_lost on 03/21/08 - 12:18 PM. Reason: Reason supplied in the post.
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| medicus_81
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categorical means that you are accepted for the full length of residency, for example IM- that would be 3 years. Prelim positions (usually IM or surgery) are 1 year positions. The program does not guarantee you anything beyond this year. For a lot of specialties (derm, neuro, anasthesia, ophtalmology, radiology) a prelim year is required before you can enter your advanced positon,i.e your real specialty (anasthesia, etc...). And yes, often times your prelim postion (PGY1) is not in the same hospital/city/state as your advanced position (PGY2)...
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| praying4a99
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I was confused also, thanks!
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| paheli
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Good qn, and good answer, too, thanks medicus.
So, which is easier to get, prelim or cat? Secondly, when you apply for a prelim position, do you need to apply for cat the same year [to begin the next subsequent year] or do you have to apply afresh the following Match, for a PGY-2 position?
Thanks
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| medicus_81
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Usually people apply for prelim and categorical at the same time (it's more work though, because you basicly need to attend double the interviews- for both cat and prelim..) but it's worth doing it all in on year because when you are later in your internship it's going to be harder to attend interviews (you have to take your vacation time to do it, schedule them well in advance so the call schedule can be adjusted etc...) Be aware that IM prelim is very desired- all american grads with the above mentioned specialty wishes go for IM prelim and not surgery prelim. Why? Because IM prelim is much easier to go through. In surgery they'll work the sh.. out of you but (esp. for IMGs) it's much easier to get into. Every year dozens of surgery prelim spots are left unmatched/vacant even in very prestigous institutions. One fact I am not really sure about (i.e. needs further investigation) is that surgery prelim is not equal to IM prelim in terms of what advanced postition you are eligible for after internship...more input from other members is welcome!
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| paheli
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Thanks, medicus. When someone matches at a cat spot [PGY-2] for the next year, do they join the mainstream residents who had prelim matched there the previous year? Sorry for all these qns!
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| medicus_81
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well yes & no...some of the residents may have done their prelim (IM, surgery) at the same hospital (so they might better know the system and have a better orientation), but no matter where you did your internship you all have the same start/rights at the advanced position- meaning all go through the same rotations in neurology for example...
There are very few programs that offer everything- from PGY1 till the end (I am talking about specialties that usually require a prelim/transitional year), but they usually specify that on their websites.
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| paheli
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Thanks so much, medicus, for your answers and your time. I appreciate it.
All the best this coming intern year!
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| new_n_lost
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Guys Suggest a Good title for this thread cos this is turning out to be a good one. A very informative one clearing up a lot of cobwebs.
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| angel^Doctor
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(Ask the matched people)
this is my suggestion to the post. let's make it an open post for questions and who ever of the matched people know the answer can answer. this will be much better than thousand of useful quetions and answers scattered all over the forum!
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| paheli
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Call it: 'Categorical and Prelim, what is'
It's the perfect Search phrase.
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| paheli
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angel^Doctor wrote:
(Ask the matched people)
this is my suggestion to the post. let's make it an open post for questions and who ever of the matched people know the answer can answer. this will be much better than thousand of useful quetions and answers scattered all over the forum!
Good thought, but you'll never be able to search for them when you need to, coz our search engine is unfortunately not very good. And, few folks know how to tag posts with search words [I don't]
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| new_n_lost
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Changed title and Tagged  Refresh and Comment
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| angel^Doctor
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nnl we really need a thread for all questions directed to matched people ! we need their experince and input and it's consumes alot of time searching the engine.. please start one !
same applies to BBB answers ! You should start a thread for all question directed to BBB and collect all old answers there.
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| paheli
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Yeah, I totally agree that we should form some 'Golden' threads, where we only collect the most pertinent qns and useful answers. But, I think we should form such threads on a 'from now on' basis. It will take ages to dig up old stuff, and nobody has that kind of time.
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| Lex
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So you can apply to PGY-2 spot without PGY-1?
Example PGY-2 Psych?
Also when applying to IM Prelim......that ask whats PGY-2 interest....can you put Psych?
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| medicus_81
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Well, psych is not one of those specialties that require a prelim year, so in your example the answer is: no, you can't apply for PGY2 psych after IM prelim. Residency in psych is like residency in let's say peds - you start and finish. But you can apply for neuro PGY2...There are people who matched (on this forum) into an advanced position but had to find a prelim through the scramble. The best is when you can match in both in one year, so that you don't have to go though the match process all over again next year.
No one will let you into your advanced position/pgy2 without an internship done.
Yes, when you apply in MyEras it asks you to specify what your plans are after the prelim year. It's optional, but no matter what - you'll get this question asked at the time of interview.
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| angel^Doctor
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medicus you rock !
what about peds neurology? many programs reqiure 2 years peds before or 1 year IM and 1 year peds how do you do that! apply 4 both at same time or what :S
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| medicus_81
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As far as I know, child neurology is in the San Francisco match (SF match) - this match is earlier than the regular one, I think it's in January. There is one member who participated this year - babydoc4usmle- and I think matched in child neurology...he/she would be much more useful in answering any question about this particular specialty. try to search for his/her posts with the search engine.
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| Lex
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thanx medicus for the input
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| angel^Doctor
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thanks medicus
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| babydoc4usmle
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not many but ALL CN (Chile Neurology) programs have this requirement (Peds 2 years, combination IM and Peds 1 years each, or through Neurology)...
To be eligible for CN you do have to complete PGY1 and PGY2, but (as I found out), it is not necessary to wait until you do before applying to CN. you can do it the same year (as I did it) and participate in 2 matches, SF and NRMP Match.
first is in January, and you get into PGY3 through it, and it is your responsibility to secure PGY1 and 2 through NRMP Match (or prematch, whatever works for you)...
one thing to keep in mind... there are so called "integrated" programs, which means you have the opportunity to have all 5 years done in one place (one that I chose)... but there are not so many programs that have that "luxury", you have to contact programs individually to find out their policy on that (please, note that information on SF Match web site is not always up to date, so do your research thoroughly).
also, you can start with Peds, do 2 years and ask PD to let you go (in the meantime get into CN for PGY-3).... was not my chice, but it has been done....
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| angel^Doctor
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this is very imformative babydoc, thanks so much !
now since i understood i'll through in another question. what if your going for cardiology for example . can you apply for IM/ or peds ( 3 years) and cardiology fellowship in same match or that is a different story - you have to finish General IM/peds then apply in a second match-?
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| babydoc4usmle
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i don't think you can do that with fellowships (but it is done well in advance while you are in residency), in general, PGY2s know where they go for fellowship at the end of their year, so applications and IVs are done before that....
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| angel^Doctor
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thanks again babydoc, a lot !
1 last question : so if you prefer the choice 1 year IM and 1 year pediatrics , you have to apply to each saparately through MRMP? if yes, then i guess securing 2 years of peds is much easier !
Edited by angel^Doctor on 03/22/08 - 02:31 PM
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