bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 32
Posts: 4,736
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I've been on these kind of forums for several years now. When prematches are offered, applicants say it's unfair, but when the rumours abounded that prematches weren't going to be offered anymore, applicants screamed that was unfair. There isn't a happy medium.
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| babydoc4usmle
Forum Guru
Topics: 18
Posts: 634
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agree with bbb, "fairness"(or "unfairness") of the pre-match is relative to who you ask:
if you didn't match and didn't have pre-match offer - it's always unfair
if you do get prematch and take it - it could be anything from one ednd to another (i was forced to take it; or , how great, i have acontract in my hands now.., and anything in between)
math-wise, i think there is no much of a difference in how many people get into programs, the differens is who and when...
personally, i was offered pre-match, i turned it down, and never i thought offer was unfair. i knew, if i go into match i would not match to that program (prelim IM), the only "unfairness" i thought fo was the fact that i did have to came to a making that kind of a decision...i knew it was going to be anagony, and it was, but there is no one's fault in it...i was actually flattered that i was considered a good candidate.
it all depends on how you look at it
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| medicus_81
Forum Elite
Topics: 12
Posts: 428
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I agree with babydoc! It all depends on your personal situation and how you feel about the offers. I still do not understand though why some programs still asuure you that declining their offer would not change your ranking for the match, while others say directly: either you take it or you shall be removed??
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| babydoc4usmle
Forum Guru
Topics: 18
Posts: 634
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it's all on "case-by-case" basis.
some PDs think that if you do not take pre-match right away, it means you are not that interested in the program (which is not always true), and therefore they do not want you "back" at the end...
in my case, i was geven enough time to think, and at the end i was assured that i will not be kicked out of the rank list, it's just that AMGs are going to be on the top and there is no guarantee that i will match (only 2 IMGs were given prematches for that program, and i could be the 3rd).
again, it all depends on the PD
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| drgeorgie
Forum Senior
Topics: 22
Posts: 149
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Both views have something in it.
IT is fair!!  Many IMGs are relieved by a prematch! It saves a lot of money. So prematch is always good.
IT is not fair!! Coz as our friend said, u interview there and by the match time u find that only 1 spot is available. That is a sad situation.
So my solution is that Programs should set the numbers before hand. THey should decide X% of our seats go for prematch and rest for match. And this should be made public before the application season begins. So that candidates who are more interested in a match won't apply to a prog which fills mainly thru prematch offers. This saves time, money and energy for both parties.
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| moe214
Forum Senior
Topics: 10
Posts: 120
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So my solution is that Programs should set the numbers before hand. THey should decide X% of our seats go for prematch and rest for match. And this should be made public before the application season begins.
but dont u think by going public these programs mite not get enough qualified applicants for prematch seats..bcoz there will be less ppl applying to these programs?
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| prueba
Forum Guru
Topics: 56
Posts: 695
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I appreciate very much that some PDs offered me a position. What I consider unfair is the pressure to take it, and the possibility for decreased chances in some programs if not taken right away.... other example was: "we will offer an H1 to prematch candidates but J1 to candidates going to the match"....
there should be some rules for IMGs in the game too.... unfortunately the ECFMG (our "dean's office") is not precisely our best advocate...
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| busybee
Forum Senior
Topics: 24
Posts: 115
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i think the agony of deciding either way if unfair........i u take it.......u wonder forever if u cud hav done better.........if u refuse , u onder if ull regret it for a loooong time!.............so its unfair coz ur forced to make tough decisions!
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| nadiabarati
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it is unfair. If prematch were fair, it wouldn't be against rules for senior US medical students. NRMP says it is illegal for US seniors because the applicants need to be at peace and have their privacies to think about their choices, evaluate them and then rank them.
Prematch is UNFAIR.
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| S.Kumar
Forum Newbie
Topics: 2
Posts: 16
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I think it is unfair too. The reason for the match is to give equal opportunity for both the programs and the candidates to make their choices, which does not always happen in the pre match.
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| new_n_lost
Politically InCorrect
Topics: 653
Posts: 6,085
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OK
I dont get the argument of it being unfair or fair.
Its a matter of choice you get offered to join a place, you dont take it, the place decides since you are hoping for something better they have a chance to ALSO look for something better so they tell you they wont rank you as the eligible candidate for them as they wouldnt want you to get stuck in a place where you werent ready to join in the first place.
You join the place. But as every human being there is a slight nagging feeling in the back of your head wishing that if you had waited and declined the offer you might have gotten some where else which MIGHT have been better.
Prematch is a matter of choice. U signed up to be interviewed you didnt like the place that much to be signed up asap so you wait for something better.
Now you cant it unfair because both you and the program are looking out for your interests. And you do whats best for you and so does the program now thats not unfair thats life which is unfair on most parts.
This is my understanding i maybe wrong so i would like the seniors to weigh in their opinions.
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| drgeorgie
Forum Senior
Topics: 22
Posts: 149
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Imagine this scenario..
I'm willing to take a prematch.. But for some reason i schedule the interview in january.
By the time i go for interviews, there are only 2 positions left!! So neither do i have a chance for prematch nor do i have a good chance at the match.
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| babydoc4usmle
Forum Guru
Topics: 18
Posts: 634
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why no one take into account that only a small FRACTION of all programs give prematch (that is mostly on East Coast)? and what is standing behind it?
and if you want to have prematch - do not schedule your interview for January (we already know that if you want to have better chance for IV, we have/had to apply in September)
there are "rules" (with it's exceptions) that let us have our chance...it's only a CHANCE, not GUARANTEE, and if we don't....we can go on and on about unfairness of life....but it won't change a fact that WE and onone else are the ones who will have to work 10 times harder so our CHANCE will be ours one day...
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| arlete
Intern in 2009!!!!!
Topics: 30
Posts: 2,235
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I think residency programs who offer prematch are having good experiences in doing so, and people who accept a prematch are relieved they have their lives defined way before the match process. It's a win-win situation. Who knows one would match in that particular program, had prematches not been offered to others by it? No one will ever!
It's a race, always!
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When men make the rules, God decides the exceptions.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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arlete wrote: It's a race, always!
Race with whom? PD? candidate? or our dear fellows on the forum?
And race for what? getting a prematch earlier than ur competitors so others can only go for the only left spot in the originally-40-seats-program? What a sick thought.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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babydoc4usmle wrote:
why no one take into account that only a small FRACTION of all programs give prematch (that is mostly on East Coast)? and what is standing behind it?
Both MGH and BWH give pre-matches this year for exceptional candidates. The one for MGH has 3.5 million NIH grants.
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| babydoc4usmle
Forum Guru
Topics: 18
Posts: 634
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and your point is?
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| arlete
Intern in 2009!!!!!
Topics: 30
Posts: 2,235
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mph:
It's a race between the candidates, that including "our dear fellows on the forum". There's nothing sick and there's nothing personal about it. The residence program offers prematches to the people they think are the best they can get. And the candidates that accept it probably think the same, otherwise they decline. It's the "survival of the fittest" created by Mother Nature. It happens all the time, everywhere.
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| nadiabarati
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hey mph what are you trying to say or implicating maybe?!
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| gingko
Forum Senior
Topics: 13
Posts: 226
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NNL is spot on..nothing is fair and unfair..programs rule and can do whatever they want within the rules of NRMP..if a PD feels someone is the best candidate, he/she has the right to grab the candidate without interviewing others.."others" cant complain..i dont mean to say that A has more potential than B..simply that A's application was screened earlier than B's..A interviewed earlier than B and the PD wanted A without getting to know B..some PDs do that..some wanna wait till they are through with the whole alphabet..
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| prueba
Forum Guru
Topics: 56
Posts: 695
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There must be a reason why the match was created. Probably the problems where just as the ones IMGs have now....
here's some "history" about the match: http://www.savethematch.org/history/brief.aspx
some points about the selection process before the match:
"
- Pressure on students to select internships well before their senior year of medical school
- “Exploding offers” that expired after an extremely short period of time (e.g., 24 to 48 hours) and gave students little time to consider their options
- Positions filled early through side-deals disadvantaging minority and other students without personal ties to the medical establishment
- Students feeling forced to accept less desirable internships because they had not yet heard from programs they preferred
- Conflicting schedules among programs for offering internship positions, which limited students' choices
- Failure of programs to abide by informal and formal agreements on uniform appointment dates
- Failure of students and programs to notify each other when they had accepted offers or filled all their positions
- Ineffective and unfair mechanisms for notifying students of internship offers
- Severe timing problems and offer gridlock unresolved by agreements on shortened offer periods, see Repeated Failure of Shortened Offer Periods "
I agree with the "unfairness of life" "survival of the fittest" and other statements as common events ..... but isn't one of the purposes of civilization to make things more transparent, clearer, and above all easier and fair for the next to come?
why should be here year after year a discussion among candidates about the fairness-unfairness of this process.?... haven't we spent such an enormous amount of money and time to realize that it is a questionable system? .....where no matter how much you put into it there might be a chance you end up with nothing, or with a place you did not like that much, because of the uncertainty of ending unmatched? ...
I accepted a prematch....but probably some of you know what was my position about it, before... and it's the same... If I was offered a position from one of my top choices I would accept it.... and if someone had a good number of interviews I would have said "accept it if it is among your top 3-5 choices" because the system makes you take those decisions ... in my case I accepted an offer from my top choice....after declining other 7 offers, but I was constantly thinking...should I have accepted this or that option? before I got one from this program..
finally, if we ask an american grad: Is the match fair? ... my guess is that most of them would agree..... why? because most of them end up with their top choice....
would we (IMGs) get our top choice if we all went to the match? or would everybody match?....most likely not, but it would have been more fair, to me at least...
Edited by prueba on 02/08/08 - 01:09 PM
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| nadiabarati
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well done pprueba! very nice analysis. But I wonder if the IMGs who accept prematch and withdraw themselves from match, will be considered as matched IMG applicants and included in statistics? To my understanding the statistics show the number and percentage of matched and unmatched based on nrmp! So when they say 45.9% of IMGs matched mean the ones who participated in match, so if we add the ones who accepted prematches, the number will increase!! Because a huge number of IMGs get their positions through prematch.
Another thing is: 57% of AMGs end up with their first choices and 52% of IMGs end up with their first choices. So not bad at all!
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| new_n_lost
Politically InCorrect
Topics: 653
Posts: 6,085
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Agree with above said posts but my question to you all is that Being an IMG why do we entertain the notion that we shall be dealt with fairness and equality as dealt to AMGs did we pay the huge amounts of money to colleges or were we invited by the PDs. We came here on our own choices for betterment of life and all that we seeked or couldnt find in our own countries. So now we come to face a situation which is unfair and partial to us and yet we are still here trying to get in.
My question to you all is that yes i do agree that system forces us to make hard and tough choices and all that but we are the ones joining in the system. People on this thread who agreed that the Match process is unfair and unjust havent received prematchs or the results that they hoped for and also those who have said its is fair have gotten their required positions.
So my only point is that we cant complain about the system and yet do our best to join it on every chance we get cos we just want to get in no matter how bad it is. This is US of A and ask any AMG they will tell you that its all about beating the system. If you learn how to beat the system you will succeed here and if you dont u will get beaten by it.
WE all made a conscious decision to come here and work for many different reasons. Yes the times can be hard and unfair to us and yes we can talk about and complain about it (cos we are human) but just remember that we made the first choice not anyone else. so we have to deal whatever comes our way.
I wish and i pray for all the members here in the match or going in next year to get what they want or give them the best place where they will succeed.
Rant over sorry for the long post.
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FORUM RULES-- Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. I get enough exercise just by pushing my luck --P4U World.." The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
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| SCI.AFTAB
Forum Junior
Topics: 10
Posts: 39
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I was not offered pre match , but I do not think pre match is not Fair.
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