lookin4residency
Forum Elite
Topics: 73
Posts: 124
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hi, please answer bbb. for people like myself with low scores and multiple attemtps due to whatever reasons, how do program directors look at our whole appication if we get weeded out before that bc of our low scores. we might have publications, research, honored our classes, great lors, but just low scores and attempts. is it an impossible situation to get our appication to a program director? any help would be greatly appreciated
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 32
Posts: 4,655
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Again, my honest answer is not going to be popular. If I have two applicants with the same number of publications, etc and both with a score of 90, but one is on the second attempt, which do you think a program director is going to look at first?
Is it impossible? No, it's not impossible.
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| lookin4residency
Forum Elite
Topics: 73
Posts: 124
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bbb, i understand what u are saying, but that is based on that you have actually looked at our whole complete application. my question is how to get a program director to look at our complete package if there are thousands of applicants and we get weeded out bc of our scores. so then our lors , publications, research are not even considered. thanks
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 32
Posts: 4,655
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Sorry, but I'm not going to be able to tell you that it's not going to matter - it is. Programs look at an entire application and if we receive hundreds of applications for each spot, many will not look at someone who wasn't able to pass on the first attempt.
I can't sugar coat the truth - even if it sucks.
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| lookin4residency
Forum Elite
Topics: 73
Posts: 124
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bbb, so if there were health related complications that caused mutliple attempts, how do we get that across to the program directors? am i fighting an uphill impossible battle? lol. just have to laugh.
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 32
Posts: 4,655
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No, if that was the case you would explain that in your PS, nicth wahr???
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| lookin4residency
Forum Elite
Topics: 73
Posts: 124
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lol. i have explained that, besides the scores and attempts, if u look at the rest of the complete package, its great, lors, honored all clinical rotations with A's, publications, research, deans letter. etc. i have talked to programs and they say that they have people who weed out applications based solely on scores, without even looking at ps, lors, etc. and if thats the case, how does anyone in my situtaiton get the pd to even see the complete package. i do understand that noone can see 2000 complete applications. but i feel like im stuck, and dont know how to go about it. any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks.
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| wolverine9
Forum Senior
Topics: 14
Posts: 185
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lookin4residency, even though you are fighting an uphill battle, I do have seniors who matched with second attempt scores(on both steps), so it is possible, especially if you are a citizen/GC. You have to apply to less competitive fields, FM, Rehab, Psych, and apply to programs that don't sponsor visas.(if you don't need one)...Those programs definitely don't get thousands of applicants and they will see your entire application...If you need a visa, is will be much more difficult...
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| abusedpostdoc
Forum Junior
Topics: 6
Posts: 46
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wolverine9 wrote:
lookin4residency, even though you are fighting an uphill battle, I do have seniors who matched with second attempt scores(on both steps), so it is possible, especially if you are a citizen/GC. You have to apply to less competitive fields, FM, Rehab, Psych, and apply to programs that don't sponsor visas.(if you don't need one)...Those programs definitely don't get thousands of applicants and they will see your entire application...If you need a visa, is will be much more difficult...
FINALLY - one constructive answer! Wolverine9 - you must be a problem solver, thank you!
A lot of time matching is also luck. Luck on the side of the applicant and luck on the side of the program. Otherwise why do so many residents drop out of residency spots after they start? Or why so many programs "suggest" to some of their residents to pursue a different specialty? Some applicants do look better on paper than they are in reality compared with others. Programs that look only at one aspect of your application (only board scores or only name of Med School or etc) are simply not taking the time to make the best decision about which applicants to invite.
I personally believe that if you are good as a physician sooner or later it will show. A friend of mine once talked with a famous physician, who co-authored the big Hematology textbook (sorry, I am not interested in Heme so I do not remember the name). The guy was around 70s at the time and he told her (she was very disappointed to learn that she is not staying for categorical IM at a prestigious institution) - that he had done his residency in a very small, no-name program in Chicago area and he still went on to become a famous hematologist. SO he told her that if she is good it will show up one day and she can be good and shine even in a small community program. Currently she is finishing a cardiology fellowship at a top notch place.
A lot of us do have set backs - personal, professional, health related, financially related etc. Just keep trying. 
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There is no limit to what you can achieve in science as long as you don't care who takes the credit for it.
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