mph
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I got a very good university program's call yesterday and the PD extended a prematch offer to me. I didn't take it right away bcz it's J1.
Then he told me, "we usually dont rank the refusers high in the match as we feel they dont really like to work here. We pay much attention to enthusiasm."
I was taught by friends here that match is actually a very good invention as it inclines toward applicants and let us rank the best possible place we want, without worrying about whether or not someone else loves the program more than I do.
Now it's like I have to marry a girl based on how much she loves me than how much I love her. I know some people like this way, but it's just not my philosophy.
Prematch complicates this game.
Edited by mph on 12/15/07 - 05:22 PM
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| venkatakureti
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good to know that you are in a position to refuse prematch offers. But I agree with your opinion that Match shud be the only selection process. I see that the PD wasnt very fair in his comments, may be he was upset for losing you.
I dont know the accuracy of his comments. When people really like you I feel they would still rank you high, though people may have different views.
Good luck and I wish you match in a place that best suits your interests and goals.
Perseverance is the key.
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| imad
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yeah..but for ppl who are not "unstoppable" it relieves the stress of going thru the match..which is very unpredictable even if it is supposed to benefit us..so tough break..live with it..
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| NE
Forum Guru
Topics: 53
Posts: 504
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I can not say you are completely wrong but I can not say you are completely right.
If you can compare this with a relationship think about! Because you can not tell someone - I like you but I need to fool around for a while to see if you are really the best!.... She can answer to you "Thanks, but I am not interested anymore".
I think depends of the quality of the program because I received an prematch offer from a very good university program and they told me- "If you decide to reject our offer and to go to match we want to know if you will rank us high".
The rule of the thumb is not EVERY university program are realy very good program and not all the PD are sure about their candidates.
Maybe that PD had some "surprises" in the past ( he ranked good people which didn't rank his program!) and doesn't want to repeat this experience again.
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| prueba
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I just believe programs should be HONEST about it, and tell they offer this amount of positions out of the match....
So that people not interested in pre-match does not spend 300-500 dollars... on travel to a program that will fill all the positions through prematch...and then end up ranking a program that has no positions to fill through the match...
Edited by prueba on 12/15/07 - 06:11 PM
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| mph
Forum Elite
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Posts: 341
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Friends, dont get me wrong. I am happy for those who get prematch and being able to move on, but I don't like the PD making use of prematch to threaten me. I can't believe this happens in a very good program. So, Imad, dont be offended. Not toward u.
NE, why can't I date every girl then decide whom I m gonna marry? Marriage, like residency, matters ur whole life. Can't I just be careful? But thanx anyway.
vankatakureti, thanx. And probably with the PD's attitude like this, I wouldnt even rank it as well. This may serve a good chance to imply something I need to know about the program.
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| babydoc4usmle
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mph, if you read what you wrote in your first post, you'll see that the situation is exactly what you say. no one can say what program to chose, and no PD should be threatening potential residents.
now, if you are in the position where you don't really like the program, then there is nothing to worry about. prematch gives you the opportunity to get spot early, but you don't HAVE TO do it, if you don't want to
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| kingsofke
Forum Guru
Topics: 24
Posts: 715
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I am hearing this a lot that prematch is not fair and unethical and highly disagree.
Match is only good if there is one assumption: that is you will atleast get something. might be the last of your choices but you would. Then and only then you can go into match fairly. If i know i will get something then i can worry about looking for the best. The fact is that 50 percent of the IMGs don't even get anything. So how can it be fair to ask somebody: hey you should go to the match though there is only half chance you will get something.
somebody might reason, when you are getting prematch then you are a good candidate and will get matched somewhere. Well look, the program that liked me and offered me prematch will not even go to match. and the programs who do go to match did not tell how much they like me. AND practically speaking there are examples of people who did not get matched after refusing prematch.
People do say that if you have good enough numbers of interview (varying but say 10) you will be a strong candidate for match. well for one i know people who didnt matched with 12 and 13 interviews in last matched. and two if your most interviews are from programs which offer prematch (which are most img friendly anyway) so then you get the picture.
people might say, examples i have quoted may be exceptions and not the norm. well then yeah, you could be right. i don't care, if it happens to me then to me it is the norm.
I am not promoting pre-match here and certainly not saying that you should take one if offered. But stop saying that it is unfair. Not getting a job after time and efforts is what is not fair. You want to ban the prematch, fine start with banning usmle or pass only the top 5-6 thousand students for which you have the jobs available.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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babydoc4usmle wrote:
now, if you are in the position where you don't really like the program, then there is nothing to worry about. prematch gives you the opportunity to get spot early, but you don't HAVE TO do it, if you don't want to
Originally, I will definitely rank this in my top 10, so u can say I like it. It's top 25 IM programs in US news.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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Hi, kingsofke
I am by no means trying to arouse any vex from anyone here, just venting my feelings. U can disagree with me. I respect u. 
The bottom line is, I hope u get the prematch of ur choice. U r not my enemy. U r my friend!
Yes, the world is not fair. Anything is unfair. So I ll eliminate "prematch is not fair." Instead, "prematch complicates ranking." Okay?
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| cerebral
Forum Newbie
Topics: 6
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mph ,just on a light note what if the girl who you finally want to marry just does not like the fact that you dated so extensively?
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| nadiabarati
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I totally agree with mph. prematch is an unfair game, I know people who accept offers just because of insecurity. I'm sure they deserve better programs but they are afraid if they remain unmatch they would blame themselves for not accepting prematch. Its unfair becaue they know you have IV with better programs but they try to take advantage of your being insecure. How can I go with a program before even seeng my other programs who cared enough to have invited me.
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| new_n_lost
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mph wrote:
NE, why can't I date every girl then decide whom I m gonna marry? Marriage, like residency, matters ur whole life. Can't I just be careful? But thanx anyway.
Oh yes you can but you have to consider this part "would you like to be a second best to someone whom you cosnidered your best " in other words you found the girl you want to marry and she says i want to look around more.
It goes both ways and yes this is the best place to vent !!
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FORUM RULES-- Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. I get enough exercise just by pushing my luck --P4U World.." The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
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| jimtaipei
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You have got a prematch offer elsewhere, don't you?
If you dont want a J1 anywhy, why did you apply to this program in the very first ?
No offending, i am just curious~
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| elektra_cr
Forum Junior
Topics: 7
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nadiabarati wrote:
I totally agree with mph. prematch is an unfair game, I know people who accept offers just because of insecurity. I'm sure they deserve better programs but they are afraid if they remain unmatch they would blame themselves for not accepting prematch. Its unfair becaue they know you have IV with better programs but they try to take advantage of your being insecure. How can I go with a program before even seeng my other programs who cared enough to have invited me.
Nadia
U just described the way I feel and I assume that I am not alone on this......I agree that prematch offers make this process and even more complicated..
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| hero
Forum Elite
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Posts: 460
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funny.
applying to 50 programs and making mess with counting how many ppl really want this or that program considered ok,
but them trying to limiting this enormous amount of applications - not applicants, this is not fair game.
I guess what PD sayed can be translated like "if i'm your number one - choose me, if not - i'm not playing this game with you". Isn't it about the same what you want for yourself?
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| hypomanic
Forum Senior
Topics: 11
Posts: 153
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well mph- you point out exactly the reasons why Prematch is unfair and illegal and banned- for AMGs!
As George Orwell said " All animals are created equal, some more so than others", the whole sytem of Match, MLE, USCE, USLoRs is fair and everyone is equal, but for some more so than the others!
For IMGs anything goes, and the PD asssumed that you are like any other IMG and so you should be happy to even get a prematch offer
And precisely, as KingsofKe points out, because IMGs tend to have poor Match outcomes, is the reason why Prematch can still work for IMGs- if if the Match percentages were like AMGs, fewer IMGs would consider Prematch
I am atleast happy that there is an IMG out there who can say **** *** ! I have offers from better places!
Reading your posts gives me hope that despite all the odds agianst IMGs, there are a few like you who make to the top tier places
I can imagine your confusion that such a good program is somehow tainted by the behaviour of the PD- but I guess it will depend on your other options at the end of the day- Best of luck
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| happyme
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In theory, prematch is not fair and should be banned; but in reality, it exists for its own reasons. MPH, you have nothing to lose, J1 is not acceptable for you. Do not take it. It is true the name of the residency is important, but I have seen many chinese IMG graduated from not top program still excel in their career later on, I have no doubt you will be one of them. Big fish in a small pond is better than a small fish in a big pond. More opportunities will come.
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| happyme
Forum Newbie
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Sorry, MPH, I don't mean that you will not get into the top program, you still can; I just know no matter what happens, this is not going to stop you from becoming the best physician, and scientist.
life is lived forward, but understood backward.
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| gingko
Forum Senior
Topics: 13
Posts: 226
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jimtaipei wrote:
You have got a prematch offer elsewhere, don't you?
If you dont want a J1 anywhy, why did you apply to this program in the very first ?
No offending, i am just curious~
"most of the programs dont have updated info on visa policy..i interviewed at a number of programs whose website says they offer H1, only to find out on interview day that they changed their policy...worse one of the program, i kept calling till a week before my interview on their visa policy and they kept telling me they cant reveal on phone..on interview day they told they will only support J1. you might say that i should have found out the visa policy before applying..but how???call programs before applying???we all know how prompt they are in answering calls...
mph..buddy this may be a one-off experience..program that offered me a prematch told me that the fact that they offered me a prematch implies that they see me as a good candidate and thus would rank me high, no matter what..so this is individualistic view..some programs dont want to hang on to u and just move on...as we are insecure, programs are too..they dont want unfilled positions..
but if this is a top program, it shouldnt be so insecure..anyways, move on pal, this is one of the things u learn and believe me, i've learnt a lot..
USMLE teaches u medicine, and match teaches u some practical aspects of life.
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Old McDonald had an ERAS inbox..with a reject here and a reject there..here a reject, there a reject,everywhere a reject, reject.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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Thank you, all my friends here.
Before I learned my country's regulation's change in mid Nov, I could accept both visa types. But now, I can only take H1.
Also, I accept girls' hanging around with others bcz they have equal rights like I do. If they end up at me but regret she could have gotten a better one, I wouldnt feel happy either.
The bottom line is, the program can choose the candidates they want by whatever reasons(even if it's by making use of candidate's desperation). They can choose to move on without ranking me after I reject them, BUT PLEASE KEEP THIS IDEAS IN MIND RATHER THAN USING IT TO THREATEN ME. YOU GUYS DON'T KNOW HOW HE TALKED - DAMN SNOBBISH !
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
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cerebral wrote:mph ,just on a light note what if the girl who you finally want to marry just does not like the fact that you dated so extensively?
Haha, I wont let her know. At least try my best.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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hero wrote:
I guess what PD sayed can be translated like "if i'm your number one - choose me, if not - i'm not playing this game with you". Isn't it about the same what you want for yourself?
Yes, PD can do whatever he wants, but dont bully me. He can hang up directly without bulling shit me.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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jimtaipei wrote:
You have got a prematch offer elsewhere, don't you?
If you dont want a J1 anywhy, why did you apply to this program in the very first ?
No offending, i am just curious~
Hi, jimtaipei
U r from Taipei, rnt u?
Then u should know why J1 is not allowed after mid Nov.
I believe it's the same for u unless u r a citizen or GC holder.
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| jimtaipei
Forum Newbie
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Hi mph,
I am sorry i dont know much about J1.
Would you please tell me why J1 is not allowed afer mid-Nov?
Anywhy i realize that being threatened makes us all feel bad...
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