hotpotato
Forum Junior
Topics: 11
Posts: 39
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mayo rochester
boston university medical center
mount auburn havard
johns hopkins sinai
how would u rank these?
i am unsure about the 2 boston ones and also if they are better than the comm affilaited MA hospital?
thank you in advance...any constructive comments please!
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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You also may want to concern how high u ll be ranked in the first 3 programs in order to decide the priority bcz the seats for IMG would play a major role.
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| irock
Forum Newbie
Topics: 0
Posts: 52
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u seem to be real "hot" potato, Mayo,BUMC, Harvard,  can u share ur creds, i wanna know wat it takes to get iv ther
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99/99/cs pass/99/ 2002/IM residency/No USCE - waiting for the match
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| hotpotato
Forum Junior
Topics: 11
Posts: 39
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is there any point in ranking the top3 if they dont rank imgs.....will i screw up my chances at the other IM mid tier hospitals wjer i got iv....if i rank them lower than these?
i am really concerned about if there is any point in even attending?
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| decide
Forum Senior
Topics: 7
Posts: 145
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Hi hotpotato! U shd rank the programs in order of ur preference. If they dont rank u, u will automatically move to the programs lower in ur list till u meet a program in ur list dt has ranked u.
U shd surely attend the ivs, if they have invited u, they mite take u as well. And go there confident nd not just feeling lucky to have been invited. I would rank in the same order as u have written in ur post! Gud luck
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| GLO MD
Forum Guru
Topics: 9
Posts: 818
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No no dear!! Don't rank thinking whether they will rank you or not!! Rank thinking by order of YOUR preference!! This is a very common mistake! Some think: This program is really good, it's my favorite but they are not going to rank me so I will not add it to my ROL or some think that by adding those programs in the top of their list they might lose a chance in other smaller programs that might otherwise taked them but that is not the way the match works!! Even if you rank 10 programs before a program that does want you, you will end up there if the other 10 didn't raked you!!! Don't worry about that!! So deffinitely rank by YOUR order of preference! It doesn't matter if you think they might not rank you because YOU NEVER KNOW! You might be ranked and just because you were not confident enough you lose your chance! And this is not even a matter of confidence!! Just rank by YOUR desires!!! Who cares if they don't want you and you end up at you number 133 choice!! jajaja just kiddin! But you get my point!!
Please read in aamc.org "how does the match work" to see those common mistakes many have so that you don't have them!!! GL! and congrats on those amazing IV's!
Edited by GLO MD on 11/09/07 - 09:33 AM
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| robin082006
Forum Hero
Topics: 471
Posts: 5,125
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rank as the order of the list
Congrats for great IVs,
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The Key to Succeed is Patience.
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| jazmil
Forum Elite
Topics: 13
Posts: 298
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GLO MD wrote:
No no dear!! Don't rank thinking whether they will rank you or not!! Rank thinking by order of YOUR preference!! This is a very common mistake! Some think: This program is really good, it's my favorite but they are not going to rank me so I will not add it to my ROL or some think that by adding those programs in the top of their list they might lose a chance in other smaller programs that might otherwise taked them but that is not the way the match works!! Even if you rank 10 programs before a program that does want you, you will end up there if the other 10 didn't raked you!!! Don't worry about that!! So deffinitely rank by YOUR order of preference! It doesn't matter if you think they might not rank you because YOU NEVER KNOW! You might be ranked and just because you were not confident enough you lose your chance! And this is not even a matter of confidence!! Just rank by YOUR desires!!! Who cares if they don't want you and you end up at you number 133 choice!! jajaja just kiddin! But you get my point!!
Glo is right on the money. I was just reading about it here : http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/algorithm...
Always rank according to your actual preference regardless of whether you think they will rank you high or not. If program A ranks you high enough on THEIR ROL for you to match there then it doesn't matter if program A is no. 2 or no. 20 on YOUR ROL. If you're not lucky enough to get matched at the programs you ranked higher than program A on your ROL then you WILL eventually match at program A.
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| CocaCola
Forum Guru
Topics: 35
Posts: 908
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decide, gloMD and jazmil are absolutely right!
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| hotpotato
Forum Junior
Topics: 11
Posts: 39
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thanks guys u r all so fantastic!
i do feel really lucky bout the iv....and feel that maybe they call me to make the img quota look good....i am bit nervous bout how to act at these iv coz i guess most other intervewees will be amgs.
anyhow thankyou so much for input...i will read the link and learn about this confusing process..
GL TO ALL
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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Dont be cheated by NRMP.
They always tell u to rank in order of ur preference, but if u waste ur No.1 choice in the program that doesnt rank u, u end up using ur No.2 to compete with others' No.1, and since the system is designed in the applicant's preference order, even though they r ranked lower than u in ur No.2 program, they get in and u dont bcz they show higher preference for ur No.2 program as they rank it No.1.
Since the position capacity is limited, u ll always be restricted by the program's rank order too.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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hotpotato wrote:
thanks guys u r all so fantastic!
i do feel really lucky bout the iv....and feel that maybe they call me to make the img quota look good....i am bit nervous bout how to act at these iv coz i guess most other intervewees will be amgs.
anyhow thankyou so much for input...i will read the link and learn about this confusing process..
GL TO ALL
As u probably know some of the major league programs call IMG simply bcz of courtesy, but all of these 3 prorgrams take IMG, so they probably like u.
Sometimes it's even easier to shine among AMG as u r more special. U r easily a star as most AMGs will focus discussion on u. My experience was like u r interviewed by these AMGs too.
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| hotpotato
Forum Junior
Topics: 11
Posts: 39
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thanks mph...i am worried about the reality of this ranking fiasco..
if i rank more likely place at number 4 and put the top tier above this then i will be up against those who simply put the mid tier as first choice...so i feel still i am at diasdvantage..
i guess best thing is to go and get feel at prog if they like me or not and then see...
mph u seem to know lot about the progs...can u shed light on th list...i know mayo is the best...but how does jh sinai fare against BU and MA (harvard)? in terms of fellowship opps and desirablility?
thanks
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| jazmil
Forum Elite
Topics: 13
Posts: 298
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mph wrote:
Dont be cheated by NRMP.
They always tell u to rank in order of ur preference, but if u waste ur No.1 choice in the program that doesnt rank u, u end up using ur No.2 to compete with others' No.1, and since the system is designed in the applicant's preference order, even though they r ranked lower than u in ur No.2 program, they get in and u dont bcz they show higher preference for ur No.2 program as they rank it No.1.
Since the position capacity is limited, u ll always be restricted by the program's rank order too.
From the explanation they give of how the system works I don't think that this is true (unless they're deliberately trying to decieve us). Your ROL merely determines the order in which the system tries to match you. Whether you match at an individual program depends on how that program ranks you. So to use your example, lets say the system is tryin to match you to your no. 2 program and your competing with someone who ranked that program no. 1. If that program ranks you higher than the other guy, then you will displace that person from that spot. They clearly state that.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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jazmil wrote:
From the explanation they give of how the system works I don't think that this is true (unless they're deliberately trying to decieve us). Your ROL merely determines the order in which the system tries to match you. Whether you match at an individual program depends on how that program ranks you. So to use your example, lets say the system is tryin to match you to your no. 2 program and your competing with someone who ranked that program no. 1. If that program ranks you higher than the other guy, then you will displace that person from that spot. They clearly state that.
No, Jazmil. If it's what u said, it's becoming a game of program's preference, not ours. NRMP clearly depicts the order is based on our preferences. If u rank it No.1 and I rank it No.2, I can never beat u even if I am higher.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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hotpotato wrote:
mph u seem to know lot about the progs...can u shed light on th list...i know mayo is the best...but how does jh sinai fare against BU and MA (harvard)? in terms of fellowship opps and desirablility?
I think it's all a matter u like it or not. Dont simply go with fame. I went to Mayo for iv but dont like it at all as I just dont fit the atmosphere there. However, u may find it a perfect place for u. Regarding fellowship chances, Clearly BUMC and Mayo stand top ur list, as it's always easier than community programs to do research and get LOR.
As for Sinai, since I ve researched so much on JHU system, I can tell u it's not a strong tie with JHU. Almost all hospitals around Baltimore have similar ties with Hopkins. The difference is they dont advertise themselves as part of JHU. Real JHU network contains only Downtown and Bayview hospital.
U still get into fellowship in Sinai, but need to work harder, need to excel during ur rotation in Hopkins Downtown hospital to get letters. Once u get it, u r done. As for research chances, let's face it, hard to attain. On the other hand, I believe based upon ur credentials, u have a lot more better community programs to go in terms of getting fellowship.
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| decide
Forum Senior
Topics: 7
Posts: 145
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Hey mph, I am all confused. Wht i gather from the NRMP site and wht jazmil has written here, if I am ranked by a program higher than someone, I have more chances than him or her to get matched to dt program regardless of the program's position in my matchlist ( i.e. if i dont already match to a program higher than this program on my match list)
Suppose their are two people a and b. a program x is on 4th position in a's list and 1st position on b's list. Suppose b is temporarily matched to program x and if a doesnt match to top 3 choices in his list, he would match to program x and would replace candidate b and the matching would start again for b, if their are still places in program x he would get matched there else he would move down in the list.
Mph, I would appreciate if I got it wrong and u would like to correct me.
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| drgeorgie
Forum Senior
Topics: 22
Posts: 149
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mph has added an interesting point! So if i make deadly mistakes during an interview and its evident that they ll never rank me, then its of no use to rank them as no 1 . Am I right?
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| CocaCola
Forum Guru
Topics: 35
Posts: 908
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drgeorgie wrote:
mph has added an interesting point! So if i make deadly mistakes during an interview and its evident that they ll never rank me, then its of no use to rank them as no 1 . Am I right?
Yes but what if this program is where you wanna be and they do rank you... even if they rank you #50 for 20 spots - as long they don't fill their spots with the first 49 people you will get into their program...
If you decide to rank them second on your list, NRMP will try to fill you in the first spot before they try to match you into the program you really want... if you match in the first program - say goodbye to the second - even though this second program is really your first choice...
Match according to your preferences!!!
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There is one thing we can do, and the happiest people are those who can do it to the limit of their ability. We can be completely present. We can be all here. We can give all our attention to the opportunity before us!!!
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| jazmil
Forum Elite
Topics: 13
Posts: 298
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The system tries to match us according to our order of preference. It will start from our no. 1 choice and if we can't match there, it'll go to our no. 2 and so on.
So how does the matching process work? Let me quote from the website:
"An applicant can be tentatively matched to a program in this process if the program also ranks the applicant on its rank order list, and either:
1.the program has an unfilled position. In this case, there is room in the program to make a tentative match between the applicant and program.
2.the program does not have an unfilled position, but the applicant is more attractive to the program than another applicant who is already tentatively matched to the program. In this case, the applicant who is the least preferred current match in the program is removed from the program, to make room for a tentative match with the more preferred applicant"
It shows here that once there is competition for a spot, the program will always get the applicant that THEY ranked higher. So what does this mean? If you fail to match at your no. 1 choice (lets say you weren't ranked), the system will attempt to match you at your no. 2 choice. Your chances of matching at your no. 2 choice depend SOLELY on how high your were ranked by the program. If you were ranked higher than at least one person who was TENTATIVELY matched at that program, then that applicant will be replaced by you (regardless of whether that applicant ranked it as no. 1 or not). You are not at a disadvantage simply because its your no. 2 choice. To butress my point let me quote from the website again:
"Applicants should rank programs in actual order of preference. Their choices should not be influenced by speculation about whether a program will rank them high, low, or not at all. The position of a program on an applicant's rank order list will not affect that applicant's position on the program's rank order list, and therefore will not affect the program's preference for matching with that applicant as compared with any other applicants to the program. During the matching process, an applicant is placed in his/her most preferred program that ranks the applicant and does not fill all its positions with more preferred applicants. Therefore, rank number one should be the applicant's most preferred choice."
Quoting again:
"Matches are "tentative" because an applicant who is matched to a program at one point in the matching process may be removed from the program at some later point, to make room for an applicant more preferred by the program, as described in the second case above. When an applicant is removed from a previously made tentative match, an attempt is made to re-match that applicant, starting from the top of his/her list. This process is carried out for all applicants, until each applicant has either been tentatively matched to the most preferred choice possible, or all choices submitted by the applicant have been exhausted. When all applicants have been considered, the match is complete and all tentative matches become final."
I invite everyone to visit the website and share their own opinion:
http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/algorithm...
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| prueba
Forum Guru
Topics: 56
Posts: 695
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mph wrote:
Dont be cheated by NRMP.
They always tell u to rank in order of ur preference, but if u waste ur No.1 choice in the program that doesnt rank u, u end up using ur No.2 to compete with others' No.1, and since the system is designed in the applicant's preference order, even though they r ranked lower than u in ur No.2 program, they get in and u dont bcz they show higher preference for ur No.2 program as they rank it No.1.
Since the position capacity is limited, u ll always be restricted by the program's rank order too.
Hey bro, If you rank a program first you don't "waiste" ur No.1 choice.... you wil match at your second or third choice, etc, if you are considered higher on a program's list compared to other applicants that rank it first..
"system is designed in the applicant's preference order" ...so your preference will remain for the nexts program...if you are high on their lists.... not to applicants that rank it higher....but are ranked lower on that program....
sounds confusing but we should rank according to our preferences even though we don't think we have much chances on that program...if there is where we would love to go.
here is also a copy of the guidelines...from the same link posted by jazmil.
Summary of Guidelines for the Preparation of Applicant Rank Order Lists
1.- Applicants are advised to include on their rank order lists only those programs that represent their true preferences.
2. - Programs should be ranked in sequence, according to the applicant's true preferences.
3. -Factors to consider in determining the number of programs to rank include the competitiveness of the specialty, the competition for the specific programs being ranked, and the applicant's qualifications. In most instances, the issue is not the actual number of programs on the rank order list, but whether to add one or more additional programs to the list in order to reduce the likelihood of being unmatched.
4.- Applicants are advised to rank all of the programs deemed acceptable, i.e., programs where they would be happy to undertake residency training. Conversely, if an applicant finds certain programs unacceptable and is not interested in accepting offers from those programs, the program(s) should not be included on the applicant's rank order list.
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| prueba
Forum Guru
Topics: 56
Posts: 695
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drgeorgie wrote:
mph has added an interesting point! So if i make deadly mistakes during an interview and its evident that they ll never rank me, then its of no use to rank them as no 1 . Am I right?
rank them first if there is where you want to go... you don't know if they will rank you high or low....
if you don't match there then the algorithm works with your second choice... (now your next "first preference")
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| robin082006
Forum Hero
Topics: 471
Posts: 5,125
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I agree with Jazmil and prueba, NRMP bases on our preference first
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The Key to Succeed is Patience.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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I think I forgot to add a point so that's why every body get confused:
You have to be on the program's rank list.
Once we both are on the rank list, it's our preference that counts.
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| mph
Forum Elite
Topics: 19
Posts: 341
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I may misunderstand a point, which is it works by individual's preference rather than comparing every one's preference. Please correct me.
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