keep_hope
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Anyone got IV for Ortho..Looks like a dream....
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| jakeislove
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How hard is Ortho to get?
Can anything in the world be cooler than using power tools (on people!!!) at work?
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| Greek_guy
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Orthopaedic surgery is one of the toughest specialties to get in. This is especially true for IMGs, and this makes much sense.
Just look at the percentages: 2.3% IMGs in ortho, (http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcstsc/0,123...)
vs 23% in general surgery (http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcstsc/0,123...), vs 53% (!!!!) in internal medicine (http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcstsc/0,123...).
It is clear that IMGs are disadvantaged, and this makes sense; just put yourself in their shoes: why introduce to the system people you don't know, who comes from another system you don't know either? (If it comes from a US system you know that more or less he is capable) The answer would be: "If you don't have people that you know well and they are good and will do the job". But in the case of orthopaedics, this does not apply, and on the contrary, the place is full with the brightest american medical school graduates. So, this leaves us with the only reason they would take an IMG: "Because that particular IMG is far better than everyone else!"
I personally know 3-4 IMGs who matched, and I will also match when the time comes, because I know what's going on. Here are the three things you need to match, (in that order):
1. GREAT RECOMMENDATION LETTERS (translated into phonecalls when the time comes) from well-known AMERICAN Orthopods ("BIG NAMES").
2. TOP USMLE SCORES (especially step 1)
3. PUBLICATIONS and RESEARCH (US, I'm talking about!)
it is not uncommon for #1 to stem from #3: Research is a good way (and maybe the only way) IMGs can introduce themselves into the system. And this is an advantage for IMGs, if they know how to use it wisely. That is because American candidates don't do much research. The reason for this is that their med school curriculum is only 4 years, thus very intensive, and there is no time to fool around with research. And even if they do, they put out 1-3 papers max! An IMG can spend a year in the US and publish more! Why? Because the determined IMG, who has left his country to "immigrate" to the US "plays it all for all". He will be working like a dog and produce papers. This, together with good interpersonal skills, is the key to getting #1 and #3.
About rotations: It is well known that American candidates are encouraged to rotate in their Departments of interest. The rationale is that "you have advantages if people know you better than the other candidates".
The problem with IMGs is that, although they may be top candidates, are less familiar with the american system. There is a learning curve, and with that said, IMGs are disadvantaged in that respect. So, going out for a rotation is a double-edged sword for an IMG: You may be a top candidate, and be able to make a great resident, but due to the initial disadvantage, you may make a terrible impression. E.g. they tell you go talk to the patient in PACU and you don't know that PACU means "post-anesthesia care unit"! Ridiculous, but true! Then, nothing can save you. It's not the IMG's fault, it's not the Department's fault. It's a misunderstanding. This is however irrelevant; what counts is the result, and the bottom line is that rotations are risky for IMGs.
There are two possible solutions to work out that problem:
1. Don't do a rotation, but have a "BIG NAME" guarantee for you to one of his friends at another Department (if not his). The guy isn't lying to his friend, because he really knows that you are good. He doesn't know about your IMG's learning curve disadvantage, but the bottom line is that you are good and he knows that you will make a good resident.
2. Do several rotations, but cleverly put the chronological order: the ones you are less interested in matching should go first, to accommodate for the IMG learning curve. Then, you will have eliminated the IMG disadvantage to the maximum possible extent (given the time spent) and be more comfortable in Departments you are most interested in.
That's my experience after spending two years in the US, having a huge amount of publications and now working on my step 1 to get a top score.
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| jakeislove
Forum Newbie
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Thanks for the help.
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| Greek_guy
Forum Newbie
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you're welcome!
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| floresmd
Forum Junior
Topics: 6
Posts: 57
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Hi, what if i'm already an orthopedist in my home country,working now as an orthopedist sugeon, does it helps or not? thanks for your advice.
good luck to all of you.
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| Greek_guy
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It may matter a little bit, but certainly comes after what I've outlined above: (#1 = great US letters from great people), (#2 = high USMLE scores, particularly step 1), (#3: publications/CV)..
Good luck!
Attached Files:
a.jpg (9 KB, 24 downloads)
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| floresmd
Forum Junior
Topics: 6
Posts: 57
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Thank's a lot for your information greek_guy, where can i search or find research positions? thank's again.
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| Greek_guy
Forum Newbie
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Well, it depends. If you are self-funded, I guess you can find everywhere (theoretically), just by writing to the programs and ask them. If you're not, then you should do your best to convince them to pay you... Maybe offer to travel and interview for a position. If you know someone who knows them, so much the better.... In anycase, a good way to start would be to decide what kind of research you wanna do. If for example you are a hip and knee guy, then you should search online for programs that are very active in hip and knee research... To continue with this example, a good way to figure this out is to go to a Department's website and have a look at their research orientation.... First figure out what interests them most. The strategy is to approach them by laying out on the table what THEY are interested in, not what YOU are interested in. This is true for life in general anyway... Some departments are very focused in their research. If you see hip and knee, then have a look at what they have published. Sometimes is shown on their website (they are usually proud of it). Regardless of whether it is shown or not, what I would do is find the hip and knee guys of the department, then run a pubmed search on each one of them. (www.pubmed.com). It is only now that you will get a clear idea of what their interests are. For example, let's say you have 3 hip and knee guys in the department. A senior, usually professor, may be an intermediate one and a junior one (assistant professor). See who is actively publishing. In that way you will see who is most interested in research. Frequently, more senior guys want to promote the junior ones and the junior ones get funding for research. This funding can pay your salary. Just be well informed, know very well who you are dealing with and offer to give them what THEY want. Don't talk too much about "I'm coming to do research because I'm interested in doing a residency..." That does not interest them, and they may find it a burden, because then you will be someone that they have to take care of (residency). If you are really determined, and really good, then just go for research. If you work hard, and they like you, they will keep you. It's unecessary to say anything regarding residency if you are applying for a research job. You can't evolve all at once; it will be in your hands to evolve in whatever direction you wish, but only after you have really proved yourself worthy of it.
Hope this helps!
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| fedup
Forum Newbie
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yes got one iv and matched for orthopedics
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| floresmd
Forum Junior
Topics: 6
Posts: 57
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you are an img?, do you have a previosly postgraduate training ?
congratulations for your match!
can you put your usmle socres or your profile. thanks and congratulations again.
can you say in what program did you match?
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| floresmd
Forum Junior
Topics: 6
Posts: 57
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hey fedup, you are an img?, do you have a previosly postgraduate training ?
congratulations for your match!
can you put your usmle socres or your profile. thanks and congratulations again.
can you say in what program did you match?
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| fedup
Forum Newbie
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yes i am an img from india with previous post grad experience
my scres are 83/83/pass,step 3 77
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| floresmd
Forum Junior
Topics: 6
Posts: 57
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CONGRATULATIONNS FOR YOUR MATCH,DO YOU HAVE POSTGRADUATE TRAINING IN ORTHOPEDICS? DO YOU HAVE A GOOD CONTACT IN THE DEPARTMENT,DO YOU HAVE ANY PUBLICATIONS. YOUR SCORES ARE NOT BAD,AND IS POSSSIBLE,DO YOU ARE AN OLD IMG? A LOT OF QUESTIONS,BUT I'M GOING TO APPLY TO ORTHOPEDICS TOO,I'M ALREADY AN ORTHOPEDIST IN MY HOME COUNTRY.
SORRY IF I BOTHER YOU.
AGAIN CONGRATULATIONS.
KEEP IN TOUCH.
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| pdoc
Forum Newbie
Topics: 7
Posts: 21
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hi,
can anyone tell me, how my chances would be to match in ortho?
i am doing residency in a level 1 trauma care center which has tightest connections to AO-foundation.
step 1 is 86, step 2 ck (score awaiting), 2cs in june
no LOR from the USA but 2 month of internship (no ortho) in number 1 university in canada( forgot to ask for LOR).
want to apply in september 2008 and i guess, i will have 2 to 3 papers in the usa then.
on my position... would you try to apply or concentrate on another program like surgery, EM or internal medicine?
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