 |  Anybody agrees with me?
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| Author | 63 Posts |
Amro
Forum Junior
Topics: 8
Posts: 49
| | 08/29/07 - 06:57 PM
3 of 15 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #1 |
Salamo aalikom everybody (peace be upon u)
Well, against what most people here & in other forums say & believe, I DON'T LIKE GOLJAN. It may be shocking to say it but that's what I really feel. What I hate most about his audios & notes is that he has no system for his review, he even doesn't review pathology per se as I thought in the beginning, he says something from here & something from there, a pearl from physiology & a gem from anatomy & he is like that all the time. Yes he links all subjects together & relates them to pathology but it's soooooooooo distracting, I find myself obligated to pause alot to check what he says in other subjects books which wastes alot of time. I have already watched Kaplan pathology videos long time ago which were useless but I really like Kaplan pathology book which I think is very well-organized & well-written. I guess with Goljan 100 pages, this will be more than enough for pathology.
Edited by Amro on 08/29/07 - 09:16 PM
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"From inability to leave well alone; from too much zeal for what is new and contempt for what is old; from putting knowledge before wisdom, science before art, cleverness before common sense; from treating patients as cases; and from making the cure of a disease more grievous than its endurance, GOOD LORD, deliver" Sir Robert Hutchison
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| damselMD
Forum Senior
Topics: 8
Posts: 173
| | 08/29/07 - 07:33 PM
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| #2 |
actually there are alot of people who think the same way about Goljan as well. especially some who have had him in live lectures. they were so mad and wanted a refund (which they never give). so that's why i say whatever is most comfortable is best.
good luck
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| GOGETA
I'm Dr. GOGETA
Topics: 321
Posts: 2,710
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People have an idea of how Goljan is base on the audio, but some people that have taken the Live lecture with him told me that he is an old angry thinks is better than everybody guy.
I like his audio class, but that is me.
After all you do what you like and work for you.
good luck
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| new_n_lost
Politically InCorrect
Topics: 653
Posts: 6,081
| | 08/29/07 - 07:50 PM
3 of 5 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #4 |
Amro wrote:
Salamo aalikom everybody (peace be upon u)
Well, against what most people here & in other forum say & believe, I DON'T LIKE GOLJAN. It may be shocking to say it but that's what I really fell. What I hate most about his audios & notes is that he has no system for his review, he even doesn't review pathology per se as I thought in the beginning, he says something from here & something from there, a pearl from physiology & a gem from anatomy & he is like that all the time. Yes he links all subjects together & relates them to pathology but it's soooooooooo distracting, I find myself obliged to pause alot to check what he says in other subjects books which wastes alot of time. I have already watched Kaplan pathology videos long time ago which were useless but I really like Kaplan pathology book which I think is very well-organized & well-written. I guess with Goljan 100 pages, this will be more than enough for pathology.
Walaikum Masalam
Well thats ur opinion and u r entitled to it. So do wht u feel comfortable with. If U find urself wasting time with Goljan cos u have to go thru other books then Stop Wasting time On it. And MOVE ON. Like Damsel said do wht u r comfortable with. U Like Kaplan, some luv BRS and others r Die Hard fans of Goljan. Now If he is an Old Guy and is cranky well so be it as long as we r getting educated i dont mind the teacher's attitude. But I will say Goljan Integrates stuff where kaplan doesnt. MLE is integration of Material. If ppl think that its gonna be like the Qbank where the questions of PathoPhysio r of Pathophysio of one particular system then they r definitely mistaken and misinformed. Just do the MLE CD and u will understand wht i m trying to get at.
My 2 cents
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| Amro
Forum Junior
Topics: 8
Posts: 49
| | 08/29/07 - 07:53 PM
2 of 8 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #5 |
thank u all for ur replies, I really appreciate it but let me explain in detail
my problem with Goljan isn't one of comprehension, I studied & read in English much more than I did in my native language which is Arabic, I understand him very well, sometimes I don't understand him when he talks too fast but he does that only when he jokes with his students.
it's also not a problem of his attitude although I don't like it all the time but I can cope with that.
The problem is, he is not teaching pathology, he teaches everything in the context of pathology. I studied all subjects from Kaplan which I find very sufficient, when he says something in physiology or biochemistry or any other subject, I look it up in its kaplan book & find it.
when he says something related to physiology, he mentions PASSO who is one of the authors of kaplan physiology book
when he says something in pharmacology, he mentions TREVOR who is also one of the authors of kaplan pharmacology book
when he says something in biochemistry which he adores, he mentions HANSON who is the author of kaplan biochemistry book
they r his friends, he loves them & recommends them & most people preparing for step 1 r studying from their books, so why not sticking to his main subject, PATHOLOGY
yes we need integration to understand pathology but not to the point of leaving pathology aside & giving it only 1/3 & other subjects get 2/3, after all he is supposed to teach pathology & integrate with other subjects as needed only.
my point is, his lecture notes which I have (I don't have RR book) & audios are not pathology-focused, I guess they r good for review few weeks before the exam but not for studying pathology as a complete subject& having a powerful grip of it, that's what I think. may be that's why many people don't sit to listen to his audios with a cup of coffee & clear mind, but they listen to them while driving or doing homework as they r like a constant flow of HY material
something else to mention about Kaplan pathology, I think the reason most people don't like it is that the most important subject is taught by a movie star rather than a college professor. John Barone knows how to smile very well, how to show up & move his head & hands like the most knowledgeable person, but he doesn't know how to teach at all. He reads from the book word by word, many times can't spell the names of diseases right. The fact that Kaplan center hasn't changed anything in the pathology book (2007 edition is the same as 2004 edition) & still have the same videos for the same guy although they changed some lecturers of other subjects gives us all a hint: KAPLAN PATHOLOGY BOOK IS ENOUGH, we may not like it (I do like it myself) but it's enough.
Edited by Amro on 08/29/07 - 08:15 PM
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"From inability to leave well alone; from too much zeal for what is new and contempt for what is old; from putting knowledge before wisdom, science before art, cleverness before common sense; from treating patients as cases; and from making the cure of a disease more grievous than its endurance, GOOD LORD, deliver" Sir Robert Hutchison
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| GoodGirl
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Topics: 93
Posts: 1,213
| | 08/29/07 - 07:55 PM
3 of 3 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #6 |
Dr. Goljan, talks about MEDICINE, I could say integrated pathology. You should get used to it, on the end , in the real exam you will not have in capital letters written what kind a Qs is it, if it is Pathology, Anatomy, or Micro.
If you are in your first read, it is understandable you feel a bit confused or overwhelmed by him, still it is your choice, no one makes you like him, or pressures you to listen to him. Still, on the end of your preparation we all should integrate all subjects, understand their bonds.
Wish you a best of luck in your preparation.
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| Amro
Forum Junior
Topics: 8
Posts: 49
| | 08/29/07 - 08:32 PM
2 of 5 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #7 |
new_n_lost wrote:
Walaikum Masalam
Well thats ur opinion and u r entitled to it. So do wht u feel comfortable with. If U find urself wasting time with Goljan cos u have to go thru other books then Stop Wasting time On it. And MOVE ON. Like Damsel said do wht u r comfortable with. U Like Kaplan, some luv BRS and others r Die Hard fans of Goljan. Now If he is an Old Guy and is cranky well so be it as long as we r getting educated i dont mind the teacher's attitude. But I will say Goljan Integrates stuff where kaplan doesnt. MLE is integration of Material. If ppl think that its gonna be like the Qbank where the questions of PathoPhysio r of Pathophysio of one particular system then they r definitely mistaken and misinformed. Just do the MLE CD and u will understand wht i m trying to get at.
My 2 cents
saying that kaplan doesn't integrate things is a little bit tricky. it's true if u study from 1 or 2 kaplan books for 1 or 2 subjects but it's not true if u study all subjects from kaplan. if u want to get the most from kaplan, take it as a whole not in pieces. Besides, I think we don't need someone else to integrate things for us, we should do that ourselves most of the time, that's why most of us use more than one book for each subject, look in clinical books & search the web.
Edited by Amro on 08/29/07 - 08:41 PM
___________________
"From inability to leave well alone; from too much zeal for what is new and contempt for what is old; from putting knowledge before wisdom, science before art, cleverness before common sense; from treating patients as cases; and from making the cure of a disease more grievous than its endurance, GOOD LORD, deliver" Sir Robert Hutchison
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| new_n_lost
Politically InCorrect
Topics: 653
Posts: 6,081
| | 08/29/07 - 09:24 PM
2 of 2 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #8 |
Amro wrote:
saying that kaplan doesn't integrate things is a little bit tricky. it's true if u study from 1 or 2 kaplan books for 1 or 2 subjects but it's not true if u study all subjects from kaplan. if u want to get the most from kaplan, take it as a whole not in pieces. Besides, I think we don't need someone else to integrate things for us, we should do that ourselves most of the time, that's why most of us use more than one book for each subject, look in clinical books & search the web.
Well thats ur Opinion. In My Opinion Goljan lays out a way to integrate material and the rest we do on our own. Kaplan doesnt ever updates it Physio Book while most of its Physio Qbank is based upon the material in Ganong. Goljan is a good platform for trainign urself on how to integrate stuff.
Amro wrote:
KAPLAN PATHOLOGY BOOK IS ENOUGH, we may not like it (I do like it myself) but it's enough.
If thats the case then y the need to combine any other book or search it on the web ?? U dont Find Goljan good enuf; I dont find Kaplan Pathology lacking a lot things which i had to add from Robbins while Goljan curtailed the need for it.
Kaplan has no where tried to integrate clinical details which r sometimes essential for the clinically oriented questions.
Again My Opinion U can disagree ur wish.
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FORUM RULES-- Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. I get enough exercise just by pushing my luck --P4U World.." The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
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| Amro
Forum Junior
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Posts: 49
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I feel the urge to say this to remove any misunderstanding. sending my post above , I didn't mean to say that Goljan is bad. he is a great teacher as most people say that, it's me who can't cope with his way of teaching. sending this post, I wanted to know if anyone else can't cope with him also or think that kaplan pathology is underestimated, that's all.
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"From inability to leave well alone; from too much zeal for what is new and contempt for what is old; from putting knowledge before wisdom, science before art, cleverness before common sense; from treating patients as cases; and from making the cure of a disease more grievous than its endurance, GOOD LORD, deliver" Sir Robert Hutchison
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| bioguy
Forum Guru
Topics: 46
Posts: 838
| | 08/29/07 - 09:32 PM
3 of 5 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #10 |
all this is a mis-match of expectance and deliverance. you expect something from goljan, and he delivers something else. every book has a scope. you won't find a book that has everything in it. if so, then it would be millions of pages. since you like to get a powerful grip on the subject - for pathology its Robbins. you already know this. now, coming to goljan, how else would you teach given the time limit and the scope - high yield. not that i am supporting goljan, but for the scope of USMLE review he had done an excellent job, in my opinion.
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| new_n_lost
Politically InCorrect
Topics: 653
Posts: 6,081
| | 08/29/07 - 09:35 PM
2 of 2 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #11 |
bioguy wrote:
all this is a mis-match of expectance and deliverance. you expect something from goljan, and he delivers something else. every book has a scope. you won't find a book that has everything in it. if so, then it would be millions of pages. since you like to get a powerful grip on the subject - for pathology its Robbins. you already know this. now, coming to goljan, how else would you teach given the time limit and the scope - high yield. not that i am supporting goljan, but for the scope of USMLE review he had done an excellent job, in my opinion.
Well Said 
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| paheli
It'sAllAboutGoodKarma
Topics: 177
Posts: 2,365
| | 08/29/07 - 09:36 PM
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| #12 |
i think as imgs, our weakest point is in not knowing the extent of clinical slant and integration of the mle qns. that's perhaps where goljan's lectures are useful. if you say that his talking about other subjects is distracting, then maybe you can read up on the topics first and then listen to him. that way, you also don't have to keep interupting your lesson to check up on facts, coz you already know it's there. just need to stop to add extra info.
lastly, the reason why people listen to goljan in their cars, or in the gym is not coz they pay less attention to him, but coz it's possible to do that. try making a kln book speak up to you on the treadmill!!! it saves a lot of time that would otherwise be wasted[no way you can read while driving, can you?] another option is you could record yourself talking out loud, and listening over it again. but chances are you will not be able to integrate it as well as goljan.
good luck.
p.s. i think the ratio of 1/3 path and 2/3 other subject is not accurate. he of course mentions other subjects coz they are all interconnected, but he does not talk on physio per se, but perhaps only to remind us of something or build on something new. that's what gives his lectures continuity.
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| Amro
Forum Junior
Topics: 8
Posts: 49
| | 08/29/07 - 09:41 PM
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| #13 |
new_n_lost wrote:
If thats the case then y the need to combine any other book or search it on the web ?? U dont Find Goljan good enuf; I dont find Kaplan Pathology lacking a lot things which i had to add from Robbins while Goljan curtailed the need for it.
Kaplan has no where tried to integrate clinical details which r sometimes essential for the clinically oriented questions.
Again My Opinion U can disagree ur wish.
I didn't say Goljan isn't good enough. I said I didn't like his audios & notes as they r full of already existing material related to other subjects that I already know & miss the main purpose of it, PATHOLOGY
saying that kaplan is enough doesn't mean I understand everything from it, I need other books to look for the things I don't understand, I also need the web to search for pictures of different diseases & syndromes.
By the way, I didn't like Kaplan micro although it's also recommended by almost everyone, so I am not a kaplan fan all the time
I said if u take kaplan as a whole, u will be able to integrate subjects together all by urself. Kaplan did a good job in regard to clinical integration, I mean the margin notes in every book.
___________________
"From inability to leave well alone; from too much zeal for what is new and contempt for what is old; from putting knowledge before wisdom, science before art, cleverness before common sense; from treating patients as cases; and from making the cure of a disease more grievous than its endurance, GOOD LORD, deliver" Sir Robert Hutchison
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| Amro
Forum Junior
Topics: 8
Posts: 49
| | 08/29/07 - 09:56 PM
0 of 2 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #14 |
paheli wrote:
p.s. i think the ratio of 1/3 path and 2/3 other subject is not accurate. he of course mentions other subjects coz they are all interconnected, but he does not talk on physio per se, but perhaps only to remind us of something or build on something new. that's what gives his lectures continuity.
may be that ratio is not so accurate but that's what I thought after listening to his first day audios. I think I will keep listening to his audios, may be when he finishes general pathology & go to the core, may be I start enjoying his teaching.
Again, thank u all for ur opinions, I know u all love Goljan, I didn't mean any offense saying I didn't like him.
___________________
"From inability to leave well alone; from too much zeal for what is new and contempt for what is old; from putting knowledge before wisdom, science before art, cleverness before common sense; from treating patients as cases; and from making the cure of a disease more grievous than its endurance, GOOD LORD, deliver" Sir Robert Hutchison
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| Feyza
Forum Guru
Topics: 48
Posts: 1,432
| | 08/29/07 - 11:29 PM
2 of 2 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #15 |
you may or not like him...thats no problem  its that ...he is a path guy but he talks on everything in a disorganised way ...I know...and you gotta pause a lot...but who cares ! he does TEACH and the things he teach improve our point of view and DO APPEAR IN THE BOARD
your exam will be the time you change your mind amro 
oo...and the audios should definetely be listened after covering every topic especially biochem and physio ...not at the beginning of the prep with path ...dont you think so for the beginners ??
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| bigdino
Forum Newbie
Topics: 2
Posts: 16
| | 08/30/07 - 06:10 AM
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| #16 |
I can understand your frustration with Goljan if you are in your first read but I did listen to Goljan and watched Barone's videos. You seem to want Goljan to teach Pathology like we studied it in med school i.e. with lots of details about gross and microscopic picture. Take it from me mate, from someone who took his exam last week, YOU WILL NOT see stuff about "dense lymphocytic infiltrations with eccentric dark nucleus" or "Orphant-Annie". This may be THE real deal Pathology but this is NOT the pathology you will be getting on your step 1 exam.
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| Amro
Forum Junior
Topics: 8
Posts: 49
| | 09/02/07 - 04:04 PM
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| #17 |
Uptill now, nobody agrees with me, nobody dislikes Goljan & nobody likes Kaplan pathology, So, I guess I have to listen to the sound of wisdom & try to like Goljan & cope with his way of teaching.
Thnak u all for ur opinions, it really helps to ask alot of people.
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"From inability to leave well alone; from too much zeal for what is new and contempt for what is old; from putting knowledge before wisdom, science before art, cleverness before common sense; from treating patients as cases; and from making the cure of a disease more grievous than its endurance, GOOD LORD, deliver" Sir Robert Hutchison
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| hedieh
Forum Guru
Topics: 47
Posts: 438
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I like Goljan so much and learned many things from his RR and lectures. One thing that I learned from his lectures is to think in a deep and different way. Actually I love his Rapid review and his lectures and I recommand it to everybody.
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| edie
I can, and I will.
Topics: 26
Posts: 1,235
| | 09/02/07 - 08:54 PM
4 of 4 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #19 |
Hi there. Please remember one thing: It is not Goljan's job to TEACH pathology with those audios, nor his book and notes (however, it IS his job to teach pathology at his medical school where he works). His audios, books and notes are for REVIEW of the pathology you were already taught in medical school. He will only touch on high yield concepts that are repeatedly seen on step 1 exams, and no more. He actually makes at statement to that effect in the audios, how he is not there to teach students all of pathology in 5 days, that it is only a review
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| Amro
Forum Junior
Topics: 8
Posts: 49
| | 09/03/07 - 06:28 AM
0 of 2 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #20 |
edie,
I agree with u that Goljan is supposed to review rather than teach pathology but even review must be in a systematic way, we must have a good understanding of everything with more emphasis on the HY details. We should not just to simply extract what is necessary for the boards, otherwise, we should study FA only for the exam as it contains the most frequently asked HY facts, can we? we need the less important to understand the more important. we r not all American medical student who have just finished their 2nd year & still have pathology in their minds & so all they need is the most important. So many of us r graduates & working doctors from all over the world who have finished medical school long time ago & need to remember everything.
___________________
"From inability to leave well alone; from too much zeal for what is new and contempt for what is old; from putting knowledge before wisdom, science before art, cleverness before common sense; from treating patients as cases; and from making the cure of a disease more grievous than its endurance, GOOD LORD, deliver" Sir Robert Hutchison
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| edie
I can, and I will.
Topics: 26
Posts: 1,235
| | 09/03/07 - 09:34 AM
2 of 2 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #21 |
Amro wrote:
So many of us r graduates & working doctors from all over the world who have finished medical school long time ago & need to remember everything.
Good point. A good way to approach path may be to take the time to read Robbins Pathology text, the full or the smaller version of the text, then review with Goljan. You have to dedicate lots of time this way, but in the end, will fill in your gaps in path.
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| new_n_lost
Politically InCorrect
Topics: 653
Posts: 6,081
| | 09/03/07 - 10:16 AM
2 of 2 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #22 |
I dont get it Y r u blaming Goljan for ur inability to fill the gaps. I think the Name of the book Suffices to say tht its a RAPID REVIEW OF PATHOLOGY not in depth, for that u have Robbins which many older grads do use to get up-to-date with their concepts.
If u really r having issues with concepts or need to go more in depth then i think u need to go for Robbins instead of Kaplan cos that also is not gonna help u. For in depth coverage go to the source.
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FORUM RULES-- Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. I get enough exercise just by pushing my luck --P4U World.." The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
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| P4a99
Forum Fanatic
Topics: 34
Posts: 2,285
| | 09/03/07 - 10:32 AM
0 of 4 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #23 |
Excuse me,
Why is it if some member has a slightly different apinion or point of view than the common ones flowing arournd he gets all these [-] ( zero leader members found his post useful )!?
Please so-called "leader members" dont be bias.
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| Amro
Forum Junior
Topics: 8
Posts: 49
| | 09/03/07 - 10:35 AM
2 of 4 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #24 |
new_n_lost wrote:
I dont get it Y r u blaming Goljan for ur inability to fill the gaps. I think the Name of the book Suffices to say tht its a RAPID REVIEW OF PATHOLOGY not in depth, for that u have Robbins which many older grads do use to get up-to-date with their concepts.
If u really r having issues with concepts or need to go more in depth then i think u need to go for Robbins instead of Kaplan cos that also is not gonna help u. For in depth coverage go to the source.
As I said before, I am not against Goljan, he teaches the way he thinks the best for the exam & sooooooooooooooooooooo many find it very valuable to listen to his audios & read his notes. I also said I don't have his rapid review book whose name has nothing to do with its huge size so I can't judge it. I am not blaming Goljan for anything & I have no gaps to fill, I am only saying what I think about him. To me, it was a great disappointment, I don't feel he teaches something I can study, I see him like Mr. Bounderbi & Mr. Gradegrind in "Hard Times" who try to fill students' heads with facts devoid of spirit. Anyway, I will try not to criticise him anymore as long as u & others take it as a personal offense.
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"From inability to leave well alone; from too much zeal for what is new and contempt for what is old; from putting knowledge before wisdom, science before art, cleverness before common sense; from treating patients as cases; and from making the cure of a disease more grievous than its endurance, GOOD LORD, deliver" Sir Robert Hutchison
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| bioguy
Forum Guru
Topics: 46
Posts: 838
| | 09/03/07 - 10:37 AM
0 of 2 forum leaders found this post helpful
| #25 |
praying4a99 wrote:
Excuse me,
Why is it if some member has a slightly different apinion or point of view than the common ones flowing arournd he gets all these [-] ( zero leader members found his post useful )!?
Please so-called "leader members" dont be bias.
who cares? i really don't understand how will that matter to anyone?
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