martie213
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hi, i'm applying for the 2008 match, and i've been researching the application criteria of the programs in each state, but I'm a bit confused with some programs' requirement with regards to scores:
some programs stated in their website that "Applicants should have scored 85 in Step 1 and 2, IN 2 ATTEMPTS"
So, for example, in my case, I got an 83 and 90 respectively, both on first attempts but based on the criteria, i won't be eligible, coz of 85 cutoff score. But I have a friend who flunked step 1 once but scored 86 on the next try, (she got 90 in step 2 also), which means, based on the program's criteria, her application is more favored than mine even if she had a failure, and I don't?
I thought attempts are much more important than scores.
Just wanted to clarify this. Thanks
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| kakamath
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well as far as I know it'll be like your score's will get first preferance and if it says first attempt means they'd probably want ppl with only one attempt and may not look at applicant's with more than one attempt depending on the qualification of applicant's applying there
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| martie213
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i understand what you mean, but it was stated that they will consider up to two attempts.
If someone didn't meet the cut-off score (like 85 for that program) but was able to pass the examsIN JUST 1 ATTEMPT...will the application still be considered.....
compared with someone who:
had TWO ATTEMPTS in an exam, and MEET THE SCORE REQUIREMENT.
I think it's a bit unfair to those who passed the exam in 1 try, but wasn't able to meet the score requirement, and yet, just because another applicant met the score requirement, his application will be considered even if it was his 2nd attempt (coz the program allows 2 attempts)
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| spitmetal
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martie the difference between 85 and 83 is minuscule
if they like your overall application they will invite you
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| silenced, M.D.
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Agree with spitmetal
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
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To me it appears to not be worded correctly, they probably mean "in no more than two attempts"
Good luck
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| martie213
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I really appreciate all your comments. but 83, is still not 85.
I watched my fiance go through the match last year (thank god she matched) and she applied to "at least score 85" programs, eventhough she got an 82 in step 1. And she received tons of emails from those programs telling her that she won't be considered for an interview (even if she had excellent grades and hig class ranking and US experience) coz she didn't quite reach the cut-off score.
So this time around, knowing that usmle scores are used to weed out thousands of applications, i won't take my chances. So i'm reading every criteria, trying to understand what they all mean. Like what this forum taught me - "APPLY WISELY"
And I intend to do that. I don't mind spending a fortune, sending hundreds of applications.....i just want to make sure each one of them will count.
So, whether its improperly worded or its semantics - i guess it all boils down to attempts versus scores, and i know it has been tackled many times in this forum, that's why i don't want to go in that direction.
yet, all i need to clear up is:
A program receives 4000 applications, and they will use the "cut-off score of 85 in all steps, in no more than 2 attempts each"...then they come across 2 applicants, A and B, with different score profiles:
Applicant A: 83/90 both in 1st attempts
Applicant B: 90/90 both 2nd attempts
Who will go into the "for possible interview" pile, and who will go into the "Do not interview" pile?
I know the selection process is much more complicated than that, but the fact that they utilize this criteria to "weed out" applications during the preliminary stages....i just want to be sure that my $25 application fee will count, or should i use it to apply to those programs whose criteria i actually meet.
Or maybe, i'm thinking too much.
Edited by martie213 on 07/02/07 - 08:48 PM
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| egomez2001
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martie213 wrote: Or maybe, i'm thinking too much.
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| egomez2001
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U can´t control everything..., Good Luck to all of us...
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| spitmetal
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im with you 100 percent in the money issue, is a a lot of money to apply to 50-100 programs
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| martie213
Forum Newbie
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yep, that's why i want to be sure i won't waste any application on an issue of non-meeting a criteria.
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| martie213
Forum Newbie
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with 20-30 programs in my prospective list having that criteria...i'm having doubts if i should still send it though, that's why I need opinions
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| hecmd23
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I think i got what you mean martie. I went through the match last year and applied to programs with that kind criteria, but my step 2 score was lower than the cut-off score. But I told myself, well, I did pass each step in1 attempt each, so I guess I meet the criteria. But I was surprised when I received rejections from those programs stating that I didn't meet their criteria! So I guess the score is still important than the attempts...just my thoughts based on my experience.
Good luck!
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| GLO MD
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I get what you mean martie but I say why not try...for instance I have 94 in 1 and a 99 in 2ck both in first attempt and I've seen programs that have a cutoff of 95...so I thought to myself hell I'm going to send it.... you never know, maybe my overall application will make them forget that I'm just a point below in step 1, plus I got a great score in step 2, well above average...so you never know... if I don't send it I will endup thinking what if?.... so why not try? If you are almost there and have other very strong things in your application go for it!!! Let program directors decide, don't cut your wings without even trying. GL my friend...
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| GLO MD
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By the way I would interview applicant A...but that's just me jajaja and if I were a program director I would also interview me!!! jajaja  but then again my opinion does not count much....
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| martie213
Forum Newbie
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Thanks for your reply GLO MD. But I guess what I'm trying to point out is, there are programs out there who allow a failure in each step....and yet, they imposed a cut off score.
So in my case, EVEN if I passed both steps IN THE FIRST ATTEMPT, yet didn't meet the cut-off score in one of the steps, will they still consider me?
Compared to an applicant who had a failure (the program ALLOWS a failure in the steps) and yet scored greater than the cutoff on his second attempt.
Its the "should pass by 2 attempts" that keeps me confused.
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| martie213
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take for example this certain program from the eastcoast
"...must have passed USMLE step 1 and 2 within 2 attempts, with a score of 215 and above."
So, for example: applicant failed step 1, but took the step again and scored 220, then took step 2 and scored 220 - then he is eligible for that program, right? Because they allow 2 attempts, AND he scored above the cutoff score requirement. So no problem with that.
But for example, another applicant wants to apply, passed both exams in his FIRST ATTEMPT, but one of his steps was lower than the cut-off score....then based on the criteria, he's no longer eligible?
Don't you think it's a bit unfair for that applicant to pass both steps in his first attempt, and not be eligible.....but someone who FAILED and then meet the cutoff score, will be eligible instead.
I guess this was what i'm trying to point out.
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| arlete
Intern in 2009!!!!!
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Yes, it IS unfair. But it is what it is.
It's easier to sort candidates based on a number then to give many variables, for example: consider all the "only one attempt people" with 210 AND all the "two attempt people" with 220 (since the person had two attempts, should compensate with a higher score, for "fairness sake"). Then they would have to come up with a number for people who failed both at the first attempt, or only step 1, or only step 2... Agree? Much easier to consider a number, tolerate 2 attempts, period. So once the guy learned, he learned really good (in theory, at least...).
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| martie213
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Yeah i guess so.
So I think that confirms it pretty well, and it answered my question, thanks arlete!
So, i'll just try to shy away from these programs who has this kind of criteria, for sure, I'll be wasting my application if I send one to them. However, they should revise though their criteria, just put in there "should have scored 215 on both steps" PERIOD. Coz the 2 or 3 attempts clause is quite confusing if you have a cut-off score.
Thanks so much!
Edited by martie213 on 07/07/07 - 05:40 PM
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| arlete
Intern in 2009!!!!!
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Tolerating multiple attempts and at the same time having a high cut-off does not make a lot of sense to me, either, but if they are getting good resident applications and matches, they are bound to keep doing it...
Anyway, good luck, martie213. I am sure there's a good place for you out there.
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