rockingdoctor
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Hi friends !
I'm planning to apply for EM residency, and it is no secret that it is 1 of the toughest residencies for an IMG, simply coz Americans love it like anything, but after having looked at it a bit closely, I was a bit confused.
EM physician's salaries hardly cross 200000/annum mark, which is way less than what a cardiologist (or for that matter any specialist doctor in America earns), the life is hell lot tough and very stressful, and u can never have a private practice as an ER doc. And with due respects to our American friends, I belive most Americans want an easy life with loads of money (everybody wants the same actually !!), so EM by no means fits this description, yet AMGs want it madly.
Can somebody please tell me why ?
And for heaven's sake, please do not say that it is coz of those TV series like ER and House and all that, coz those are lame excuses, nobody is foolish enough to choose a career based on factitious TV characters !!
PLease post ur responses, I thank u all in advance !!
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| ssrpk
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hey, i certainly don't have reasonable answer to your question but buddy you don't have to degrade americans here over the fact that several AMG's wants to get into EM as you suggest while it has a low salary scale. Practicing medicine isn't just about money and compared to other fields 200K a year is stiull not bad.
Those guys are generous enough to provide such a wonderful opportunity to learn and practice medicine in their state of the art institutes, to imgs from all over the world. People over there including img's are into reasearch which isn't a field where one can make millions....
i think the least we can do is to show these people our respect and try to make our way into their system as best we can.
good luck
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| alosh_2
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Not every one is in it for "loads of money". Some people just enjoy their respective field, regardless of how much it pays. It's hard to generalize, I wouldn't be an EM physician if you paid me a billion bucks a year, cause it's just not for me.
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| vradojc1
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to rockingdoctor - if you plan to denigrate your colleagues (regardless where they come from or where they graduate from), you'd better read again Hippocratic oath and then re-think whether you want to do medicine at all.
You should be ashamed for your comment!!!
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| young_doc
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This was probably the most un-educated comment i've ever read.
-For the hour they put in, EM physicians make A LOT of money.
-As for life being tough and stressful, well there's 2 sides to every story. I personaly don't think that NEVER TAKING CALL is stressful. EM physicians have the most lucrative jobs! They typically work on average 16 days a month, and when they're off, they don't have to worry about being paged or called, or their patient crashing, etc.
-As for never being able to have private practice...you make it sound like it's a bad thing. Just wait until you get to the U.S. and have your own private practice and have to deal with insurance companies. You'll think twice about a 'private practice'.
Some of us who enjoy EM like it for the fast-pace, like it for procedures, like taking care of patients in the acute setting, like being the jack-of-all trades being able to take care of anyone who walks in the ER, like having the confidence of making life-altering decisions...etc. It's for the love of the job, not for the money.
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| rockingdoctor
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Thanks to all, would invite more comments.
And to vrdaojc1, why do u say that I should be ashamed of myself ? I had a doubt and I asked, there is nothing wrong in it, atleast I'm not a hypocrite. And I never had the intentions to degrade anybody, neither Americans nor my fellow countrymates , I respect everybody.
As I said b4, any more comments please ?
Thanks again
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| new_n_lost
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young_doc wrote:
This was probably the most un-educated comment i've ever read.
-For the hour they put in, EM physicians make A LOT of money.
-As for life being tough and stressful, well there's 2 sides to every story. I personaly don't think that NEVER TAKING CALL is stressful. EM physicians have the most lucrative jobs! They typically work on average 16 days a month, and when they're off, they don't have to worry about being paged or called, or their patient crashing, etc.
-As for never being able to have private practice...you make it sound like it's a bad thing. Just wait until you get to the U.S. and have your own private practice and have to deal with insurance companies. You'll think twice about a 'private practice'.
Some of us who enjoy EM like it for the fast-pace, like it for procedures, like taking care of patients in the acute setting, like being the jack-of-all trades being able to take care of anyone who walks in the ER, like having the confidence of making life-altering decisions...etc. It's for the love of the job, not for the money.
 ITs the Thrill of activity Rush of getting Things done and After ur shift u dont get paged at all.
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| young_doc
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I'm still waiting for the moderator to add a sub-forum for EM.
It seems like most other specialties get their own sub-forum except for EM  I wonder why???
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| Sayulita
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Hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm.
Well,well.
Let me see
Ok,yes in the ER you work lots of hours,makes you ready for anything and everthing
pay is good.
And at the end of the day you home and rest
there is no calls to wake you up when sleeping.
I know that it not for everybody BUT does who do well,hats off to you...
Now if you want something a lilte more on the SLOW pace try ,Pathology patients are not going anywere
Dermatology nice and slow and good money...
Now were is the action ER but again it is not for everybody
Good luck , goodbye
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| rockingdoctor
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Well, u r mistaken, that is the whole point I'm trying to make, there is very little money, and a whole lot of work and stress, yet for some weird reason, AMGs are very interested in it, agree with the fact that it is fast paced and interesting, but it has some down sides as well, u can never call a patient ur own, the moment a patient is stable, he is taken up by the appropriate team (Im, surgery or whatever), it has a high malpractice sue rate, and u hardly ever get the credit for curing a patient, and not to mention little or no scope for research, yet no IMG can break through this seemingly not so good specialty, and it is AMG (and predominantly Caucasian dominated specialty), can u explain that ?
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| young_doc
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Rocking doctor...you're missing the whole point. Things that you find not-so-attractive, other's find extremely atrractive. And once again, you're making HUGE mistakes regarding the field.
-like i said before, FOR THE HOURS PUT IN, it pays better than most other specialites. The average EM physician makes between 150-200...but they only work on average 16 days a month, with no call.
-malpractice is less in EM than certain other specialties like surgery.
-not everyone wants to call a patient 'their own'. Some of us just get joy from stabilizing patients in the initial setting, and being the first person the patient sees, and then re-directing them to someone else's care.
-i have never heard of ANYONE looking forward to getting "credit for curing a patient"
-not everyone likes doing research.
You seem to have a hard time realizing that different people like different things. It's a great, fullfilling specialty, and if you stopped looking down on it so much you might actually have a chance to get in.
Just out of curiosity... if it's such a bad specialty according to you... then why in the world are you planning on applying for EM, as your first post mentions??????
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| new_n_lost
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I guess U R MISTAKEN IN UNDERSTANDING THE REASON WHY AMGS r Going for EM cos they tired of tough life they have mostly spent half their lives working their asses off to get into MED school n then residency and PAY OFF LOANS THey have accumulated during their course of studies. Now they want to relax n Enjoy life and Literally spend their money Be Like the DUDES/DUDETTES in ER or Grey's Anatomy. ( Grey 's Anatomy had a theme that the Chief of Surgery wanted to Quit cos he missed the Family Life) THey have all the moeny in the world but cant ENJOY IT so thats Y they all go for EASY MONEY which is not only EM its also Radiology, Derma Orthro as well
Wht u r not Gettting is that AMGs wanna live Free and untangible
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| new_n_lost
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Rocking Doc DUDE Seriously have a Reality Chk The Reasons by Young_Doc r more than enuf for anyone to join EM and besides U havent MEntioned that as to y r so worried abt AMGs getting into EM r u also thinking of getting into EM 
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| Luckyall
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 i guess now i understand better a PD's position !
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| catmd04
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Hi guys,
I read and re-read the post of Rockingdoctor and really don't understand why some of you get angry with his/her post??? This is a forum and everyone has freedom to ask, as long as it does not hurt anyone. I personally don't see he/she looks down on other people or any thing. He/She just wants to get into ER and dont understand why there are so many others like it too. That is the whole story. Period.
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| coolmavs
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Actually, if I remember correctly in some Step 1 video, I think it was Behvioral or something...the prof mentioned that it has been well documented, that the demand for EM has increased a lot since the time ER (yes the tv show), has started on television. Some time back, not many AMGs got into EM. Maybe it is just the arenaline rusha nd the fact that you create a particular image of hospital and doctors that drives these docs to pursue ER. Dont know how true that is but just something that I heard.
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| new_n_lost
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catmd04 wrote:
Hi guys,
I read and re-read the post of Rockingdoctor and really don't understand why some of you get angry with his/her post??? This is a forum and everyone has freedom to ask, as long as it does not hurt anyone. I personally don't see he/she looks down on other people or any thing. He/She just wants to get into ER and dont understand why there are so many others like it too. That is the whole story. Period.
Its not that any of us is angry but wht he/she cant understand is our point as to Y they AMGs wanna go in EM. None of us r angry at him/her for asking this point but infact we r suprised that we all for some reason cant be able to explain the certain facts to him/her and therefore i totally agree on this point we all (those have responded to this post) arent able to make Rocking Doc understand why AMGs go For EM Thus making us at fault.
We have tried our level best to do but Alas we have failed and Again ITS STILL OUR FAULT !! PERIOD.
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| rockingdoctor
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Guys and gals, I really love EM from the core of my heart, there is no confusion in my mind that I wanna be an ER doc, and lemme tell u all one thing, it may be shocking to all of u, but I've never ever watched any of the TV serials/movies that have been made based on ER settings, I just loved the very concept of EM from the day when I learnt what medicine really meant, but now when the final few months are coming b4 match, I'm getting few doubts in my mind, u know why, here it is :
1. All my classmates are applying for IM, few for peds, none for EM ( I have like 50-60 friends planning for residency in 2008), and all think that I'm foolish to even think about it.
2. When I talk to my friends about their future goals, all say they wanna do a fellowship(almost everybody wants to become an interventional cardiologist, rest nephrologist) and then earn lots of money, I never thought about my career this way, I just wanted to pursue my profession in a way I enjoy most, but this money thing made my mind go bonkers, it made me think that whether I was really doing the right thing ?
3. Even in my senior batches, there is not a single person who is doing his/her residency in EM, so I was really shocked, coz I come from the 2nd ranked college of my country, and people all over the country look upto my college for inspiration, and I have nobody even to talk to about this, let alone looking up to or asking for advice.
So now I was having serious doubts about my career goals, did I want to pursue a mirage ?? Did I wanna invest my time and money with no guarantee of returns ? And even if I did match, would I be sorry 10 years down the line when I see my classmates earning millions of dollars, and I'd be there on a minimal income ? I'm having a serious conflict in my mind, should I pursue my love of EM, and let money go, or should I pursue IM (with subsequent fellowship in Interventional Cardio) and earn tons of money
I'm very concerned from this conflict in my mind, my fellow doctors, I hope I have now conveyed my real problem, plz help me get out of this mess !
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| new_n_lost
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Pursue UR Dream!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its not Unrealistic with the dedication u have shown just now for the field i m sure u will not be refused in any Interview.
U will be in my prayers for success and if u believe in God and in ur self then surely u will get ur dream its not unrealistic its a bit hard to get but thats the point DREAMS ARENT EASY TO GET
Wish the Best of LUCK buddy!!!!
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| new_n_lost
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U cant buy Satisfaction or Happiness from Money it comes from within.
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FORUM RULES-- Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand. I get enough exercise just by pushing my luck --P4U World.." The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
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| rockingdoctor
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I believe that as well ,sir/madam
Thanks for wishing me luck, I will pray for ur success as well.
May God bless u and everyone else as well.
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| rockingdoctor
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I'd request friends to keep posting here to keep this topic alive, I'm sure that many more of us would be helped by this particular topic besides myself.
Any more comments or criticism are appreciated
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| dannyridelman
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200k is enough to have a nice house, nice car, nice fishing pole and not worry about money, unless you're into really expensive fishing poles.
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| rockingdoctor
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That was funny danny boy, but I don't fish, thanks for letting ,me know anyways
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| hedieh
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I am agree with Rockingdoctor, that this job is so stressful, becoz I was an ER physician in my country, and after 8 years of working I was exhausted with all of the stresses that I had. So that's why I am still in doubt to try for it, although I have a very good experience and I am professional in this field, I prefer to choose another speciality, even if they pay me much less. And offcourse money is a life fact, I think it is wise to have a look at the end of the way, when all of a begginer docotor curiosities about ER mecdicine r satisfied and then he wants to deal with real life, and asks himself: do this money worth for this much stress? 
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