FaddyAcids
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Thanks for your great help!!
I think they require only step 1 for Externships. But if I will have the surgery rotations at the end of my 6th year, how the hell can I go to get USCE without knowing anything in surgery? I am getting confused.
Many people are telling me that LORs from US physicians are like gold, which is the purpose of trying to get an externship.
You may want to take a look at this website, it has very good forums with great people advicing:
www.studentdoctor.net
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| mildanemia
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You can still get LORs as an observer but there is a limit as to what your attending can write about you since you are not allowed to clinically examine or interact with the patients.
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| FaddyAcids
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I am told that they can't comment on your clinical skills after completing an observership, which is the most important issue!!
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| FaddyAcids
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I guess letters of recommendation from Egyptian physicians are probably irrelevant to them, right?
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| FaddyAcids
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I think if even I get an externship I will not have good LORs coming from Sun-Eye University (ain-shams) with no clinical skills lool!!
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| nany
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Faddy & mildanemis....
you really helped me with these detailed steps 
thank you very very much for your help  ....
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| FaddyAcids
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o2mor ya nany basha
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| mildanemia
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That is true, they can not comment on your clinical skills but as a physician you are not limited to your clinical skills only. Step 2 cs is a clinical exam and it focuses on 3 components; Clinical knowledge/Skills, Communication and interpersonal skills and your English language. Given the fact that a physician is not only sought for his clinical skills your attending will be able to write up a good impression regarding all of the components that would make you a good physician if he feels that you are. Just remember that during an interview you are not required to perform an Orotracheal intubation
Communicating with your fellow team mates, peers, your ability to discuss patients, your wealth of knowledge, your level of professionalism, your dedication and commitment, etc.... Although clinical skills may be a very important aspect of a LOR, it is not the only one.
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| FaddyAcids
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but do you think they will let me go for couple of months during the 6th year (in ain-shams)??
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| FaddyAcids
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ur right but everybody is telling me that observerships are much less desirable and i should try to get some electives when I am still a student.
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| mildanemia
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There is no doubt that it is better to get as many electives as possible as a student however if you are unable to do so an observership is the next best thing. Generally speaking you are not allowed to leave the country during the school year but there are exceptions for everything.
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| maoudoody
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concentrate on ur scores first
1- usmle scores
2- usce and lors
and u will have 2 months vacation after ending surgery and obs rounds u may schedule a us elective their
but getting an elective as a medical student is hard
yes it is easiesr than graduates but still very hard
i contacted many universities.....many of them ddinot respond and those who did said we dont accept visiting medical students from ain shams school!!!!!!
and others once i mention am medical student from egypt they respond we dont accept visiting medical students from egypt
so my advice to u fady is to concentrate on ur scores first
after that there will be still a chance to get usce
the safest way is to go to us doctors in their clinics and tell them u would like to help them.......some may refuse but others may accept ...u may help in talking history from the patients....or just observing
and good luck
general surgery is tough so u have to achieve a fabulous score in step 2
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| FaddyAcids
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loooooooooooooooooool they dont accept med students from egypt??
I was told that electives at physicians private offices are not considered USCE bec it has to be in ACGME accredited university hospitals.
I guess they wont consider me a student if I wait until the vacation after the 6th year, what do you think?
Are you in ain-shams?? I am fady fayez (5th year), a2ra3 we saksoka safra do we know each other?
Thank you so much for the great advice, I really appreciate it!!
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| srac84
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Hey faddyacids, I'm actually an American studying in 6 october university in egypt. We also have the same sytem as you guys in aim shams, but we study in cairo university. Anyways i have the same plan as you, and was hoping to skip the final internship year, considering we get the bachelors degree. Many ppl have already dont it for europe. From what i understand from sh2oon alkhrigeen in our university is that if you are egyptian, you will get a temporary diploma and NOT your full transcript. While any other student will get their full transcript and 4 diplomas that are temprorary here in egypt, though do not state anywhere on the diploma that it is a temporary diploma or that i have not completed my internship year. Apparently the only difference would be that the final 1 is just bigger and more colorful so you can hang it up in your office  . I also went a step further and asked ecfmg about it, and unfortunately i am take step 1 at the second half of the year kinda busy now cuz im in 6th year. But they said that i would have to apply for my first step before they verify if it would be enough for me to be able to get my ecfmg verification. Considering that you have already taken the first step, why do you write them an email and tell us what they say?? since me and you most probably have the same type of diploma since we both are graduating from the same country even though its a different university. I think the email was something like info@ecfmg.org, or also credentials@ecfmg.org, they take a while to reply prob around 10 days. I'll also post this in the egypitan imgs it seems you are more active there so that at least you would have seen it and been able to reply. Take care, hope to hear from you soon.
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| nany
Forum Guru
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I think they agree with you Faddy that we are not doctors
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| FaddyAcids
Forum Newbie
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lool @ Nany
Welcome to Egyptian IMGs World Scrac84. You dont sound like american though, maybe you meant holding a GC (permanent resident).
I tell you the Bottomline (FOR ANYONE WHO WANNA GET INTO US RESIDENCY MEN GHEIR EL EMTEYAZ):
I am not really aware of 6th October system, but given that you graduate on January (like ain-shams) 2008. You most likely will not be able to catch 2008 Match because you will get your final diploma 6-9 months after graduation (during el emteyaz). And you have to be ECFMG certified before ROL deadline (late Feb 2008) otherwise they will automatically withdraw you from the Match, therefore you have to send your diploma at least 1.5 months earlier (considering you have all your steps done).
The final medical diploma has nothing to do with el emteyaz and obviously with weither you are egyptian or not.
If you email ECFMG at "info@ecfmg.org" to ask them about the temporary diploma, they will reply in 10 business days saying that they need the certificate that gives the Mb ChB degree. They dont know what a temporary diploma is.
You was asking something about Step 1 but I didnt get what you mean.
And what did you mean by ECFMG verification? I know ECFMG has to verify your status when you apply for the exam, as a student officialy enrolled in a medical school or a graduate.
Could you make it more clear?
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| srac84
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LOL faddy no i am american born and raised in america LOL, no green card i dont understand how you would know whether im american or not from the way i was writing. Anyhooow, unfortunately for you, i guess 6 oct is a lil different than ain shams i actually get my diploma final one in feb/march time 2 months after graduating, because I am not egyptian. Had i been egyptian in our private school, it would have been the same system as your going through which is to wait a whole year for my papers to come out. The idea is once i leave, i don't have to come back so i guess it works out for me Hamdullilah. Forget about the step 1 question it wasn't really a question you just didnt understand it. I was just saying that in order for ecfmg to verify your diploma you had to have at least applied for step 1 which is why i cant ask them the question and told you to ask them directly which is why i gave you the email addresses.
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| FaddyAcids
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But tell me why you get your final diploma on Feb just because ur american, if its Feb then it applies to everyone (american/egyptian) or at least who will do "talab este3gal", it depends each year on "magles el game3at", ur not in the army..and if an egyptian student doesnt take el emteyaz he/she will still get the diploma but not authorized to practice medicine in egypt if he continues here,, and same applies to u..did u have all ur medical + premedical years in egypt?
So whats the question u wanted to ask ECFMG? and ill ask them for u..
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| FaddyAcids
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Topics: 7
Posts: 412
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By the way I was wrong in the thread "Does this diploma work?"...el emteyaz is not a requirement to get the final diploma but it is to practice in egypt for those graduated in egypt..im sorry
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| mildanemia
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You guys are comparing apples to oranges, you can't compare Ain Shams to 6th October. 6th of October and MUST are schools based on Capital and in a capital world you can probably buy whatever you want; Money makes the world go round... Foreigners do NOT get their diplomas earlier than the locals at Ain Shams Uni, a friend of mine is an American citizen and he just got his "mesta3gel" after a long wait. The wait time is regularly 2-3 years.
Ain Shams and 6th October have different Final diplomas too.
About the ECFMG certification, while you're a student I don't think they verify your medical education because they require you to send a copy of your final diploma which they send back to Egypt for authentication. If you apply without it I doubt the ECFMG will send your university a letter to verify your medical education. Faddy, perhaps you can pay Ostaz Salah a visit and check if ECFMG have sent you a letter of medical education verification; my bet is probably not.
I got this from the ECFMG site, I think it validates my point and clears some misunderstood information:
Verification of Credentials
ECFMG verifies every applicant’s final medical diploma with the appropriate officials of the medical school that issued the diploma and requests the medical school to include the final medical school transcript when the school returns the verification of the medical diploma to ECFMG. Verification by ECFMG with the issuing school may also be required for transcripts that are submitted by applicants to document transferred academic credits. You will not fulfill the ECFMG medical education credential requirements until verification of your final medical diploma, final medical school transcript, and, if required, transfer credit transcript(s) is received directly from the issuing school(s) and accepted by ECFMG.
ECFMG will notify you to advise when your diploma is sent to your medical school for verification. If ECFMG does not receive a response from your medical school within the anticipated time period, ECFMG will send subsequent verification requests to your medical school. ECFMG will notify you when it sends these subsequent requests. ECFMG will also notify you after receiving and evaluating the verification from your medical school.
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| FaddyAcids
Forum Newbie
Topics: 7
Posts: 412
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No ECFMG verifies all students medical education with their schools when they apply for the USMLE. And they must have been done the same with you Mildanemia when you applied for Step 1 but we have nothing to do with this process.
A freind of mine is actually in a trouble right now because of this, ECFMG sent a verification request to Ain Shams and they didnt answer!! He took the exam 6 weeks ago and didnt get his score yet until ECFMG receives a verification that he's enrolled in a medical school.
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| mildanemia
Forum Newbie
Topics: 3
Posts: 90
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It's normal for something like that to happen at Ain Shams, you're friend has to go to Ostaz Salah and sort out the issue if there is an actual problem. I still haven't taken my Step 1 exam and the ECFMG has not contacted the University yet.
I'm posting more information worth reading regarding certification and verification:
Credentials for ECFMG Certification
You may not submit your credentials to ECFMG until you apply for an exam. If you send credentials to ECFMG before you apply for an exam, they will not be processed.
If you are a medical school graduate when you submit your first exam application, send your medical education credentials with this initial exam application.
If you are a medical school student when you submit your first exam application, send your medical education credentials as soon as you graduate and receive them.
When your credentials have been processed, ECFMG will notify you. You can also check the status of your credentials by accessing OASIS.
Final Medical Diploma
ECFMG requires all medical school graduates to submit copies of their final medical diploma.
You must send two photocopies of your final medical diploma to ECFMG. Do not send an original diploma. The exact name of the final medical diploma you must provide is listed in the Reference Guide for Medical Education Credentials.
You must send the copies of your diploma to ECFMG by mail or courier service. ECFMG does not accept these documents by fax or e-mail.
You must submit the copies of the final medical diploma in the original language, containing the issue date and all of the appropriate signatures of the medical school and/or university officials. Documents that are not in English must be accompanied by an official English translation. ECFMG will not accept copies of a medical diploma that is not in English without an official English translation. Likewise, ECFMG will not accept an English translation of a diploma without copies of the original language document from which the English translation was prepared. (See English Translations.)
Final Medical School Transcript
When ECFMG sends your medical diploma to your medical school for verification, ECFMG will request the medical school to include your final medical school transcript when the school returns the verification of your medical diploma to ECFMG.
If ECFMG is unable to obtain your final medical school transcript directly from your medical school, ECFMG will contact you and request that you submit to ECFMG copies of your final medical school transcript. If ECFMG has previously verified your medical diploma with your medical school but not the final medical school transcript, you must send copies of the final medical school transcript to ECFMG. ECFMG will then send a copy of the final medical school transcript to the medical school for verification. In such cases, you must send two photocopies of your final medical school transcript to ECFMG.
You must submit the copies of the final medical school transcript in the original language. Documents that are not in English must be accompanied by an official English translation. ECFMG will not accept copies of a medical school transcript that is not in English without an official English translation. Likewise, ECFMG will not accept an English translation of a transcript without copies of the original language document from which the English translation was prepared. (See English Translations.)
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| FaddyAcids
Forum Newbie
Topics: 7
Posts: 412
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You haven't taken step 1 yet?!! man we're in Dec, didnt you apply for 2008 Match?
I hate to go to Ostaz Salah bec everytime he keeps me for 30 min saying the same word 100 times lool!!
Thanks bro for the great post!!
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| mildanemia
Forum Newbie
Topics: 3
Posts: 90
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I'm not going for 2008 Match
Ostaz Salah has an OCD, he is an ill fellow so you have to be a little patient with him. At times he can be really annoying but he gets the job done, just beware that he's kinda unstable thus liable to impulsive bursts of anger. I witnessed one of those bursts before, he turned into a raging bull for a few seconds then regressed back to "his" normal state. Try to focus on the way he arranges his work and how he counts everything 5-6 times.
If you think reading the same word is annoying just wait till he gets a document in English and starts to translate it into arabic, the guy literally translates every word out loud, even the date!
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| FaddyAcids
Forum Newbie
Topics: 7
Posts: 412
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LOL ur right!! but u know i like him very much though..
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