Mezo
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u r right , electives has to be done in ACGME accredited hospital, but my friend did externship which has not to be.
Edited by Mezo on 01/19/08 - 05:46 AM
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| FaddyAcids
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From the link that you asked me to paste the relevant points, here's a resident advice in response to me about externships vs observerships:
If you're still a medical student then you are at an advantage as you can still apply for an externship which will allow you to obtain Hands-on USCE which is like GOLD! However, if you leave it until you graduate then it becomes really (REALLY) difficult to get an externship and most hospitals will only offer Observerships which technically do not allow hands-on work which will mean that your LOR from here probably won't be able to comment on your clinical skills, and consequently will not help you much in applications.
Externships exist specifically to train medical students. They allow medical student to experience training in specialties that may not be available at/different to their own institutions.They are not meant to train already graduated MDs
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| FaddyAcids
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And here's the advice of Dr. Kimberli Cox (general surgery)..attending:
Externships, aka visiting clerkships, are designed for final year medical students. Once you have graduated you are not eligible for them and only for an observership.
The latter are MUCH less desirable because you will have no clinical contact with patients and letter writers are therefore unable to assess your clinical skills. This is a malpractice issue. As a student the program (or your program) can provide malpractice insurance to you for a nominal group fee. Once you graduate you are no longer eligible for the student group rates and would have to find independent insurance on your own. In my 7+ years here at SDN, I have never seen a thread from a user which stated they found such.
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| FaddyAcids
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kimberli cox :
the issue of doing electives with private attendings. For programs that require USCE, they will expect those rotations to be in association with an ACGME residency hospital. I speak from experience...having had a friend who had one of her 4 week rotations "not count" since it was done in a PP without any university/residency affiliation. Fortunately, she had enough weeks otherwise.
You cannot get an externship if you are not a medical student. All you are eligible for is an observership unless you can find someone to give you malpractice insurance. Otherwise, you are restricted from clinical contact with patients and can only observe.
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| Mezo
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thanx .... i'm still not sure but if this is correct then it seems that electives r the name given for US students, i.e. any visiting trainee either student or Graduate is called Extern doing Externship, like Visitor Resident here in Egypt, is that what u wanna say???
And since the guy am telling u he did electives, he might be just saying like americans or to refer that he is a student ... the thing that i'am sure of is that electives r for students only, last yr medical students specifically, and actually my brother mailed them asking for electives and they requested these ....
Letter from faculty stating that he is a last yr medical student, Dean's letter, Toefl score, among others .. and as far as i can reacll this was from Harvard school of medicine, he didn't got it coz by the time he'd have came ready he'd have passed the deadline for application ...... when he comes back from cairo ,probably next week , i'll ask him to show me the e-mail response and get back to u.
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| FaddyAcids
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Mezo wrote:
any visiting trainee either student or Graduate is called Extern doing Externship, like Visitor Resident here in Egypt, is that what u wanna say???
That is what you were saying, enta mesh merakez ya man
Electives are offered for both AMS and IMS.
Anyway, I gotta go...YOU ROCK STEP 1 BROTHER!
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| Mezo
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You cannot get an externship if you are not a medical student. All you are eligible for is an observership unless you can find someone to give you malpractice insurance. Otherwise, you are restricted from clinical contact with patients and can only observe.
i agree, i said that My friend did externship with FMG portal, which is private company and he did pais 300$/wk, he got 4 wks, i just called him, he told me that it is count as hand on experience and better than observership ofcourse, He also told me that the best is to have an externship with ACGME accredited Hospital, but this is not available anymore which opens a field for private companies to just give a Hand - on experience and to have a US LOR and he told me not to do more than 4 wks with them, That applies for graduates.
But u r still a student, and ur chance is bigger than us, whatever they call it, elective, clerkship or externship,. just try hard to do it as a student, my friend corrected me and said that as a last yr medical student u apply for clerckships which = the rounds here in Egypt and in emtiaz u apply for electives, but as i told u my brother was just starting his emtiaz and he asked for electives and they asked him for a letter stating that he is last yr med student ... man i said this word so many times, plz don't let me say it again 
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| Mezo
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BTY, how do u extract from my post in that blue box???
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| FaddyAcids
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Mezo wrote:
BTY, how do u extract from my post in that blue box???
Click on the number of the post that you wanna quote
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| mildanemia
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Faddy,
No, that does not apply to us. Once you graduate and start emteyaz the Student's Affairs office will no longer have the authority to issue any documents, the only document you "might" be able to get is one that states "Faddy has graduated and his overall grade is Very Good. His results are pending certification and his final medical certificate has not been issued yet.".
I like the arguement going on between you guys however there's too much info to read at once but I'll reply soon isa. Mezo, we discussed the observership vs externship a few pages back. You'll find out that observerships are not "useless" and that they don't treat you like an "object". Judging from your posts I assume you haven't been an observer before. I'd prefer believing that you've never been an observer rather than believing that you were and that they treated you like an object.
Edited by mildanemia on 01/19/08 - 11:58 AM
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| Mezo
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My friend just said to me that....
Clerkships are clinical rotations usually done by 3rd and 4th year medical students. They participate in lectures and see patients.
An observership is usually available to foreign students or graduates who want to gain some U.S. experience. They are only allowed to participate in lectures and cannot see patients.
The Externships are rare and are usually for foreign medical graduates who want to gain some hands-on, U.S. experience. Externs are like interns but without a contract with the hospital and their work is unpaid like students. We used to have externs at our hospital to alleviate the workload of interns/residents. It was successful but the hospital decided to stop this practice and now offers only observerships
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| Mezo
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mildanemia wrote:
Faddy,
No, that does not apply to us. Once you graduate and start emteyaz the Student's Affairs office will no longer have the auhority to issue any documents, the only document you "might" be able to get is one that states "Faddy has graduated and his overall grade is Very Good. His results are pending certification and his final medical certificate has not been issued yet.".
Did u asked Sho2oon El2ateba2 in the university hospital or Sho2oon el 7'eregeen in the faculty ??? go to the Dr. who is head of she2oon el2atebaa2 and tell him the situation and probably take an e-mail print out from the hospital or something to believe u and tell him that u want it in English not in Arabic .... also tell him that Mansoura do that to its students and see how it goes??? and if u know anyone who can pull some strings for u, that would be so helpful.
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| Mezo
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mildanemia wrote:
Faddy,
Mezo, we discussed the observership vs externship a few pages back. You'll find out that observerships are not "useless" and that they don't treat you like an "object". Judging from your posts I assume you haven't been an observer before. I'd prefer believing that you've never been an observer rather than believing that you were and that they treated you like an object.
I didn't, but a friend of mine did and these was his exact words, he told me that he was treated as an object and so he searched a lot for externship & he is now doing an externship in a Hospital in Kansas
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| icehell
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after 9 months of not going work at ministry of health hospital  they send me letter to go for medical ex. !
Edited by icehell on 01/19/08 - 08:14 AM
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| mildanemia
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Mezo wrote:mildanemia wrote:
Faddy,
Mezo, we discussed the observership vs externship a few pages back. You'll find out that observerships are not "useless" and that they don't treat you like an "object". Judging from your posts I assume you haven't been an observer before. I'd prefer believing that you've never been an observer rather than believing that you were and that they treated you like an object.
I didn't, but a friend of mine did and these was his exact words, he told me that he was treated as an object and so he searched a lot for externship & he is now doing an externship in a Hospital in Kansas
You're friend was very unlucky then I guess, perhaps his efforts to impress were not enough or his medical knowledge was not top notch. There are techniques to capture the attention of an attending; american, egyptian or whatever other nationality at the end of the day they are doctors and so are you. You must prove yourself to them because if you don't you'll only be another third world doctor. However you're friend is lucky because he's doing an externship right now, he must be relieved unless he's still being treated like an object; it's all about the attitude.
And no, plain and simple no we can not fiddle around with documents. Student affairs will not issue such a document and neither will the graduates office. You can always try a wasta but then you'll be jeopardizing your future because today you say I'm in 6th year and tomorow you apply for ECFMG certification and once the real dates are out in the open you'll be in for a heck of a surprise
I would like to see the look on the "Doctor's" face if someone mentions that they do it in Mansoura; priceless. The few words after that will probably be something like "That's what makes them Mansoura".
No offense Mezo.
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| nany
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hey ya shabab...eeh elnashat wel7amas da kolloh
awwalan shokran Mezo for your nice words about my journal  ....just trying my best [ actually not my best yet  ]
and I'll consider your advice about step-1 FA topics to read for step 2 as I got this advice before and I think this is very important..., I just wish to have the time for that
amma ba2a belnesba lelshahada elkartoon fe teb eskendereyya....meen 2al en e7na 3andena moshkela  ....
heyya fe3lan mesh betetla3 ma3 elshahada elmoakkata wala shahadet elemteyaz...bass fe ay wa2t te2dar teaddem talab fe mabna elgam3a we tetalla3ha [ bass betaƍod 7awaly shahr 3lshan tetla3]...., ana 3an nafsy 2addemt 3la beta3ty bass lessa matala3etsh....
Edited by nany on 01/19/08 - 12:05 PM
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| nany
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BTW....what is this "medical ex." they sent you about icshell?...I can't understand 
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| FaddyAcids
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mildanemia wrote:
he must be relieved unless he's still being treated like an object; it's all about the attitude.
nany wrote:BTW....what is this "medical ex." they sent you about icshell?...I can't understand
medical ex-girlfriend
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| nany
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howwa enta mabetfakkarsh '3er fel7agat de
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| FaddyAcids
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el 7agat dy heya el betfakar feya
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| nany
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yaraaaaaagel ....tab rakkez felatfal a7sanlak .....shattabt 3aleha walla ehhh ?
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| FaddyAcids
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bokra nafs el ma3ad..el atfal kolaha hatkoon mafrooka
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| nany
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bardo ......ana ba2ol '7allena fe lelet elemte7an elly beta3mel elmo3gezat 
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| icehell
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ana kont me2dem agaza mardy min shahr 5 ely fat w gadedtaha (mazal mareed w molazem el-ferash) w ahu lesa fakreen yeb3touli komesioun el-naharda.........walahi begad south sinai dy engaz 3alam 3aysha ma3a nafseeha .....yalla 7akalif nafsy meshwar w agadid el-mareed mazal molazem el-ferash hewa el-sara7a mesh el-ferash eiah! da bas ana khalas 2arbt akun khabeer fe el-laptop!
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| nany
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wallahy ya ba'7tak....ana ba2aly 3 shohor day'7a 3lshan a'7od agaza bedon morattab we a'7eran fee amal bass lessa shewayya...., asl ana be3eed 3annak taklyfy fe elbe7era
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