johnavin
Forum Senior
Topics: 7
Posts: 45
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For those who is interested in knowing the ABIM pass rate of each program, here is the link. Choose the state on the right side of the web page.
www.abim.org/resources/states/index.shtm
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 32
Posts: 4,713
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http://www.abim.org/resources/states/index.shtm
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| ssandhu112
Forum Guru
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thanks bbb and johnavin.happy holidays
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| doc_droc_apurva
Moderator
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are they really imp?? i mean passing/failing is dependant more on the individual than the program...
john and others opinions??
apurva
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| johnavin
Forum Senior
Topics: 7
Posts: 45
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I personally think it depends on the individual, but all the programs that I interviewed with like to tell us about their pass rates. I suppose they use the pass rate to rate themselves. This is for someone who is asking about how is the program.
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| bluestar
Forum Guru
Topics: 236
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board passing rate only tells us about their education. not the working enviroment and other stuff. who can list others things to look in a program? I am wondering...
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 32
Posts: 4,713
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The board pass rates are important. They show that the program is teaching its residents what they need to become a board certified physician. That is important because more and more hospitals want you to be board certified to be on staff. More insurance companies will only accept you as a provider because you are board certified. If you are looking at a medicine subspecialty, you need to pass the medicine boards prior to passing the subspecialty boards.
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| doc_droc_apurva
Moderator
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very true - but then the paradox stands that some very illreputed programs like most of the new york community hospitals have better pass rates than few of the premier programs!! the teaching there is barebones at most but the residents are so hard working that they can beat their more "educated" cousins in the better programs.
i believe that a person can learn anywhere if he has the aptitude to learn. yes teaching is essential but to judge a program solely on the board pass rates is like judging a basketball team on the basis of its win-loss ratio. the ratio says nothin about the strenghts of individual players only their performance as a team
apurva
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| CSobsessed
Forum Senior
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Apurva, I guess you are right in a way that it all comes to the individual: you can not shovel knowledge into somebody's throat BUT the programs with good faculty who are interested in teaching make learning process much easier: you do not struggle on your own with your doubts and questions. You learn everyday naturally, case by case. That is why listening to morning reports, or rounds, watching residents interacting is very important during interviews. The saddest hospital I saw was PGHC. I do not know how people can learn anything there but passing score is OK. Actually, while preparing for Step 2 I attended the course for IM board exam and participated in answering MKSAP questions. Trust me, there is very little you do not know to pass even now, even less trouble if you care to give it a little bit time to prepare.
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| doc_droc_apurva
Moderator
Topics: 38
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in full fairness u have an extremely valid point there. life can always be made easier by having good attendings. and as u said i believe its better to rely on the quality of morning reports and rounds rather than the numbers.
frankly i am not going to bring up board pass rates as an issue to discuss with during the iview. its the topic every attending answers 10 times per day and is posted on the website and during the presentation. what if the rate is low? u cant ask pd why is so low and what are u going to do improve it  but if the rate is high and the reports are good - i will just say im impressed by ur board scores and quality of reports.
i think boards have almost become like step3 - mandatory but cannot differenciate a good physician and a bad 1.
and i think thats all there is to board scores unless im very mistaken. do post ur comments - i might not have explored it properly
apurva
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| sanz
Forum Elite
Topics: 14
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Just some questions: when you take the board exams, it's either pass or fail, right? Or is there a score like the USMLE? Or like Step 3, the exact score is not as important as say Step 1 and 2?
I think exams are needed to make sure everyone has the same baseline knowledge to work as a competent doc in his own speciality. But I believe scores dont reflect how good a doc one is, just how good an exam taker!
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 32
Posts: 4,713
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I don't know about all the board exams, but for the ABIM and subspecialties - it's either a pass or fail.
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| drkill
Forum Elite
Topics: 15
Posts: 189
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I agree with the fact taht passing the boards depends on individuals mostly.Any good student can have difficult circumstances.but what i think one shd look for in a program is....are their board pass rates consistently low? why?residents dont get time to study as much,most knowledge is acquired from daily conferences/rounds etc.If the residents dont get the time to attend or the quality of teaching is poor-- it is worrisome.Also when u attend the morning report etc....dont just judge the faculty...judge the residents as well.1 interview i went the 3rd yr presented a case in morning report....the presentation ws so poor that i was shocked he had come so far.ppl in my med school wouldnt have survived final yr if presented like that.in short we can judge during morning reports etc if the residents seem smart n knowledgeable or not?
this is what i learnt during my experiences....anybody with similar views?
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