Mxshrink
Forum Elite
Topics: 13
Posts: 171
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NOXAR 311, Hi, I used First Aid and USMLEWORLD for step 2 CS.
Chemarm, I think we can rank any hospital we want to, but if they didnt interview us, I dont think thyell rank us.
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| chemamr
Moderator and PGY2
Topics: 703
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thank you laloblum and Mxshrink. 
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| noxar311
Forum Elite
Topics: 3
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shrink...how much time did u spend on the cs prep overall?.....i know itīs a kinda silly question cos everyone has their ouw pace and all....but im still tryinī to figure out some sort of avg time...
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Yarbles, great bolshy yarblokos to you. What you done you had no right. I'll meet you with chain or nozh or britva any time, not having you aiming reasonless tolchocks, it stands to reasonless, I wont have it...
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| Mxshrink
Forum Elite
Topics: 13
Posts: 171
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NOXAR311, There are no silly questions on this forum,ask anything, thats whats the forum for. I took a month to study, but if you have time, I would sugest to take some more time for you to practice more. (I still dont know how I passed)
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| Medusin
Forum Elite
Topics: 17
Posts: 279
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Hi everybody, I know I have not posted anythning for a while but I have some questions maybe some of you ca help me answer.
1. Is the USMLE similar to the Examen Nacional in Mexico? If so to which STEP is it more alike?
2. I know some med students in Mexico who are planning to take STEP 1 after they finish med school. I know for a fact that many people in this forum have said they have already graduated and plan to take STEP 1. I used to think it was better the other way around, I mean, to take STEP 1 right after your first two years when you have just covered the basic sciences and everything is fresh. But now Im not sure as a I see many people waiting to take it later. I know it is a lot of material that is tested on part 1 and it can be intimidating to take it right after your second year. So what is your view on this? I will be finishing my second year in two semesters so I would like to hear comments on that.
3. Which pharmacology and microbiology book you think is he best to review for STEP 1?
4. Does anybody know where I can get the audio from Goljan? I heard they are very good.
Well I hope you can help me with these questions and good luck to all. Thank you.
Amado
Universidad de Guadalajara
University of Texas at Austin
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| chemamr
Moderator and PGY2
Topics: 703
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Amado, i can help you with the first 2 questions. This is my opinion:
1. National Exam in Mexico is an exam that assess basic and clinical sciences, itīs only 1 exam. USMLE is 3 exams=3 steps. 1=basic, step2=clinical. Which is more similar? i would say step 2CK is the most similar to the national exam, because in the national exam they ask about 80% of clinical sciences and 20% of basic sciences, approx.
2. Definitively itīs better to take step 1 when everything is fresh, doubtless. When you finish your basic sciences, when you end your first 2 years of medical school, thatīs the exact moment to do step 1.
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| Hagar
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Topics: 4
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hello everyone, i'm a student who started out at UANL in monterrey but because life blessed me with a daughter i moved back to the states and i now i cross the border everyday to go to class in mexico to a school which i transferred. i plan on taking step 1 some time in the summer. medusin, in my opnion i would say examen nacional is nothing like the usmle. the main reason for this is mexican medical education is very traditional. meaning that during the basic science years, its just that......basic science. they throw in very little clinical in the basic sciences which is what you need to know to pass step 1. for example my very first semester at uanl i had histology and embriology. histology is important but it is too stressed too much for what really matters for step 1. anatomy and neuroanatomy are separate courses and its obvious at uanl that they are designed to filter out a bunch of people. remember right out of high school you can go to med and there are always tons of applicants. and as a result these subjects are mainly memorizing tons of useless facts like origins and insertions of muscles and anatomic relations along the pathways of nerves. lesions, which are very important for step 1 are hardly seen in these courses and they consider hardcore anatomy more important than lesions. my father is an img who is now in ER and he went to school in morelia. same thing. they made him memorize every single detail possible about craneal bones!! nowhere on step 1 do they ask specific direct questions about craneal bone. on exams they dont require you to integrate material for a clinical purpose. not once in my three years at uanl was i asked questions even similar to ones likely to be on step 1. i don't recommend taking the exam right away when its "fresh" unless you have already been practicing the type of questions and thinking processes needed to answer questions for the step. remember, supposedly on 66% img's pass step1. and of all the mexican doctors that i know personally who have attempted to take the step in recent years very few have passed. i personally believe that us mexican med school students need to dedicate at least three or four times more to study for the exam than the average US medstudent. there are a lot of resources and i recommend you start on them as soon as possible even if you don't plan on taking it soon. you need to familiarize yourself with the sources. QBANK is highly rated and everyone says is very similar to questions on exam. goljan is great too, buy them on ebay, and get an mp3 player to listen to him when you're not reading. kaplan lectures and dvd's are also great. First aid is also up there with the essentials. besides those, other great review books are brs pathology and physio, microbiology made ridiculously simple, lippincots illustrated for pharma and biochem, highyield series for anato, neuro and embrio, and brs behavioral science which is a subject most img's have no experience with. it combines psychology, biostatistics, epidemiology, ethics, and doctor patient relationships. hope my advice is of some help and wish me luck on my exam
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| Hagar
Forum Junior
Topics: 4
Posts: 24
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sorry for the large post people. before i realized it was already a page long
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| Medusin
Forum Elite
Topics: 17
Posts: 279
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Hey Hagar,
Thank you for your promt response. I think you are right about mexican med schools. At Universidad de Guadalajara there are few of the basical sciences that are clinically oriented. That is mainly the reason I came to the University of Texas, as an exchange student for this semester, to take some basic science courses that can help me prepare for this exam. I am currently using Pathology BRS, Physiology BRS, First Aid and Pathophysiology for the Boards and Wards. All of them have been really helpful in my classes. I have some of the audio from Goljan from this site coolgoose.com, you can download them my just searching in music for USMLE. I just downloaded them a few hours ago by they are pretty good although the sound quality is kind of bad.
By the way I really admire you having a daughter and still going to school. I know it must be really hard. I wish you the best of luck in your exam.
Also thank you Chema for your response. By the way have you applied to any hospitals or residency programs yet? How is that going? Best of luck man.
Amado
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| noxar311
Forum Elite
Topics: 3
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hi medusin...about q#3...i bought lippincotīs pharm....but i gotta tell ya..i didnt read it....it was too wordy and too "charty" for my taste... thatīs one of the top rated books for pharm, but it didnt work for me...i think thats the most important thing to consider when it comes to choosing the review books....ask yourself what works for u?...charts, diagrams, algorithms clinical vignettes,or plain text...and you will find the right book. I ve never been fond of tables and charts and somehow the information on the pharm review didnt get through me...i gotta say the only thing i did for pharm on step 1 was some K videos that they have in my school and a few pages on lippincotīs......
The best, and actually the only, booki can reccomend for micro is precisely MMRS...it has a very relaxed, and even amusing approach and very high yield info, and as far as antimicrobials are concerned, has all the pharm u neeed for step 1.....there are a few of the MRS series and all of them may work for you...i only got micro cos i dont think the funny style is the right approach for everything....but then again u gotta ask yourself what works for ya and then choose...for other things (anatomy,biochem)i used the Underground Clinical Vignettes (UCV) and they worked like a charm...i used brs for physio and patho (great path review) and those are almost exclusively text,text and more plain text.... so i guess what im trying to say to you is that i dont think is advisable to "marry" to any series...just approach each subject the way u feel more comfortable and do it!....any book will do the job (as long as u actually read one!!)...but u want to optimize your effort by making it feel lees painful......
hope this helps...
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Yarbles, great bolshy yarblokos to you. What you done you had no right. I'll meet you with chain or nozh or britva any time, not having you aiming reasonless tolchocks, it stands to reasonless, I wont have it...
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| chemamr
Moderator and PGY2
Topics: 703
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yes, i know USMLE is much more difficult than Nat Exam but if you want to compare it, that would be the most similar. Pharmacology by Lippincott is good, in my case I like that kind of books, with many charts. you should check it out, i liked it.
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| laloblum
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Topics: 2
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My two cents!!!
If you are taking the Step 1 after 2nd year of a mexican Med school it really it's kind of a suicide, you have the false idea that you are "fresh" in basic sciences subjects, but the truth is you don't know the basic sciences that USMLE is going to actually ask you. This is because mexican med school do not emphasized too much on the basic sciences (with exceptions, of course) and they do not cover the material required to the Step 1... the only med school that does it, is the UAG International program, and they have to because most of it's students take the usmle. So I will suggest that the best time to take the step 1 is after you finish either you internship or the social service year... so can have more time to focus and study.
The Mexican National Residency test can't be compared to a usmle. This test is an unfair competition with those who really study and those who pay the test. It is also bad structured, with an unclear objective of what they want you to know. You can not let me lie when I tell you that the part to assets your English, doesn't really make sense. Also, I observed that the 2005 test had like 60% translated from many questions banks of the usmle, with a very poor translation of course. In my experience if you are able to pass the step 1 with a nice score... you will pass the National test, in any specialty.
Anyways... you just study... and study hard...
Saludos y arriva las Chivas
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| drgaxmac
Forum Senior
Topics: 7
Posts: 186
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i totally agree with laloblum, there's no comparison. And i love my country, but theres a lot of corruption.
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| noxar311
Forum Elite
Topics: 3
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I agree, too.....i dont think that by the end of the 2nd year in mexico, one can say they got fresh basic science knowledge....the step 1,although pretty basic, is still clinically oriented....and letīs face it...the 1st two years of mexican medical education is just plain learning of factoids and memorizing, in the vast mayority of schools u dont even get to step into a hospital or touch a patient...making the step 1 either right before or right after internship would be the right approach, i think...and then maybe pass the ck & cs during the social service year....I regret not having had the vision to do that..and know itīs been a year and a half since I finished the social service....and failing the national twice
...and by the way...I pass the step 1 with a not-good-but-not-that-bad 200/82 (1 month before the national)...and got like 300 spots below the cuttof on the nacional (surgery)...so i actually belive the national is harder..simply cos ure against 25000 other guys. is like if u had to be on the 90th percentile of the usmle to pass it!...in the USMLE ure against the test and nothing more....the second reason is that the test is very confusing (at least for me, it was) u never know what they are asking for and they ask factoids rather than knowledge on how to handle anything,thereīs never a clear answer when it comes to "cases"..i find that very frustrating and annoying......the english section is plain idiotic crap...the other reason, of course, being the corruption issue...we all know how that works...the test is sometimes a mere formality.... i think everyone knows first-handedly that the test is up for sale...we all have seen it.
the truth is that this is my country and that wont change, i love it....but I wont miss anything about it (professionally) if I manage to get myself a position in the US.
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Yarbles, great bolshy yarblokos to you. What you done you had no right. I'll meet you with chain or nozh or britva any time, not having you aiming reasonless tolchocks, it stands to reasonless, I wont have it...
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| chemamr
Moderator and PGY2
Topics: 703
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 ok!.
STEP 1: Maybe Iīm wrong, i hadnīt thought about the clinical nature of the step 1. Itīs true. You need a good basis of clinical knowledge and thatīs not included in the step 1 books. So yes, i must change what i said and agree with you on that. One should have also clinical knowledge.
STEP 2CK, CS: I agree with you noxar: one should take step 2CK and 2CS during the social service, it would be a good time.
NATIONAL EXAM: itīs a more clinical exam, i did it (like you noxar) so i can give a reliable opinion and itīs approx 80% clinical questions and 20% basics. And of that 80%, most of them are about pediatrics. Definitively itīs easier than the USMLE. Agree with you noxar, there is corruption, several or many guys buy the exam and can study it 1 or 2 days before the test. And another difference is that in the Nat Exam there are questions which donīt have a straight forward answer, confusing questions which could have even 2 answers. Anyway MEDUSIN, you are not going to do it.
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| chemamr
Moderator and PGY2
Topics: 703
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DRGAXMAC: when do you plan to do your step 2 ?
NOXAR: do you plan to apply to surgery in USA?
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| SilatK
Forum Guru
Topics: 42
Posts: 581
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Medusin: the goljan auido I left them in Tala for you and the audio is great. Also there is more info for the CS in one of the cd's.
Baylorudem: the 5th.pathway is only available in very few schools around the world. UAG is the only one that offers it in Mexico. To my understanding any student that starts this august has to pass STEP 1 in order to pass to their 5th year of medical school. The advantage is that you have direct access to a U.S. hospital when you are done with the 4th. year. so far the only place is in New York. But when you passed Step 2 and get your "titulo" you can apply to any program in the US. The 5th pathway is only available for those in the International Program not the Latino Program. Also you have to maintain a decent GPA and not take any class to "extraordinario". Plus you can apply for financial aid too.
Good luck to all of you guys who are being interview. Wish you the best and hope you do not have to wait for the scramble.
I was away for a few weeks. I went to GDL and Vallarta. Too stressed out with the STEP2 and work and marriage(just kidding with the marriage part) But feeling better now ready to get a 90 on the Step 2.
For the CS I highly recomend the CASE-BASED SIMULATION AND REVIEW by O'connell and Horita it is by Saunder's. It also has black and white pictures. I think is great to use with First Aid or UW. I recommend usmle world because of the videos only.
Good Luck to everybody and wisht you the best for this year!!
Study and study make a schedule and stick to it no matter what!!
good luck medusin aim for those letters and leave a good rep.!!
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| carnederez9
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Topics: 4
Posts: 31
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Hi guys, long time since I been here. Just finished interviews today.
Looking back on when to take the step1, I personally took it during my 3rd month in my internship year, i believe it gave me that clinical experience needed which is definately a must to have, especially coming from a mexican school. My step 2 I took it during my servicio social and took the nat the next month. I believe step 2 is easier to study for than the nacional simply because it has a better structure to it. Nat plain and simply sucks, anyway I passed it just for the hell of it, 23rd in ENT, did I start residency in mexico, no way........ I was one of those horror stories you hear about not being from DF and I didn't know anybody, do I regret it, Not at all. My .02 cents.
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| noxar311
Forum Elite
Topics: 3
Posts: 305
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hi chema....sadly I i have been askin that question to myself and i dont have a straight forward answer to it.....this is gonna sound odd but im either aplying to pathology or urology and my "plan" is to make the decision based on 1.- my scores and 2.- the usce I could get in the future (mostly observerships is what I have in mind)..... iībe heard that patho is far more "less competitive" that any surgical specialty, and besides that...i have seen that is hard to find any USCE in pathology.....i mean..i havent found any hospital that would offer the equivalente of an observership in patho and on the opther hand Iīve been offered a couple of monthly observerships in urology in pretty decent hospitals....
having said that, my "strategy" will obbey those 2 parameters...if I get some kick-ass score in step 2, maybe iīll get "greedy" and apply for urology..make those observerships, try to get some LORīs and go that way...... on the other hand, if I keep gettin borderline results maybe iīll try to get any experience (not necessarily surgical) and go for pathology...ikeep gettin conflicting info about how competitive pathology is...some say is hard cos the applicants tend to have good scores or are already pathologist in their country...or are US grads with some masters...some say is relatively easy cos patho is the least popular....so..i dunno... but then again, maybe my application is stronger for urology with fair usmle scores and a urology LOR that an application for pathology with no observerships.....i dunno.... frankly im takin this thing one step (literally) at a time and since today my only goal was passing the CK...after im done with that iīll be only thinking of CS and after that Iīll be only thinking in the USCE....but anyway iīd love to hear whatever,if any, u guys want to say... I love having different perspectives and opinions from ppl that have already been through this.....that why this forum exists in the first place, isnt it?
on other topic..i have a couple of articles in pretty decent international journals and 6 in mexican journals,as well as an oral presentation in an international congress in the US...some say it would really boost the application..some say is helpful..some say is irrelevant...I would be interested in hearing whatever u all got to say about that ....
so...i know that for some ppl it would sound lame to hear someone sayin "iīll go for either patho or urology" but u know what?..iīll go either for patho or urology...i dont think i would be happier in one that in the other.....thnk u in advanced for ur "cents"....
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Yarbles, great bolshy yarblokos to you. What you done you had no right. I'll meet you with chain or nozh or britva any time, not having you aiming reasonless tolchocks, it stands to reasonless, I wont have it...
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| laloblum
Forum Junior
Topics: 2
Posts: 58
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My friend!!
After you celebrated with your family and got so drunk because you passed all the USMLE to get you certificate (true story  >) besides de headache from the hangover you will start to get a huge pain in the.. you know where... called "interview process".
You will read many forums and you will find many ideas and rumors about the interview, your application and of course the best curriculum ion order to get in. I think that the interview process is harder to bear than any usmle test.
But now that I passed with all that, I can tell you some things I observed.
For an IMG (international medical graduate) you'll need 3 basics thinks and few more accessories in order to get into residency. The first basic is USMLE SCORES. In order to have a better opportunity, you will need and average score of above 200, doesn't mean that if you are below 200 you can't get in, but your opportunity increases. Second PASS THEM IN YOUR FIRST ATTEMPT, many residency programs do not invite for an interview those who didn't pass all their steps on the first attempt, but again you can get in if you pass them in your 2nd or 3rd attempt. And the third basic think GET YOUR ECFMG CERTIFICATE BEFORE INTERVIEWS, even this is controversial because you can apply to and get interviews without this certificate, if you have it, means that you are ready for residency and they can take into a real consideration because you have passed everything.
Besides this 3 important things, there are what I called accessories, meaning that if you got them your applications could get stronger (or weaker in some cases) and get more interview calls, but if you don't got the 3 basic things, these accessories would not help you.
Accessories for your application in order of importance: Done the same residency in home country, Date of graduation, Letters of recommendations form US doctors, Observerships or clinical rotations, articles that only are in the index medicus, clinical experience. The first two are controversial and depends form program to program, but most of the program look at the same things. I might forgot some, but once again this is from my own personal experience.
If you are an American citizen or have a permanent resident status you will have a more easy time finding programs and receiving interviews in comparison to those of us you need a visa.
After you read this, you can imagine for a Mexican citizen, that studied in a Foreign school, with score of 203 (step 1) / 210 (step 2) both in second attempts and CS Pass in 1st attempt, how hard was to get a residency spot... But I did get it... so nothing is impossible, just pass the boards. Remember that what I had written are just an opinion of my own personal view of the match, and can be different to other people, but I think can help you as a starter when you are thinking in going to the match.
Saludos y arrivas las chivas!!
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| drgaxmac
Forum Senior
Topics: 7
Posts: 186
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Hey chema, how are you?
I plan to take my step 2 the first day of march , the sooner the better. I wanted to take it last week of feb, but i had problems with the 186 form because the smart notary stampted wrong, so ecfmg sent me a letter where it said it was DEFICIENT. So i did the whole thing againg and lost my elegiblity period from feb- apr. Now i have to take it in the March-may period.
Saludos a todos. Arriba Los Lakers (es que casi no sigo el fut)
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| Lorena
Forum Elite
Topics: 9
Posts: 237
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Hii!! i missed you everybody!!. I was gone for my second batch of interviews and couldnt check my emails or the forum for 2 weeks.
I am back and done with interviews and ready to write thank you letters and rank my programs
NOXAR sorry for such a delay in replying... i took kaplan 5 days live preparation in Palo Alto. I was very happy with it although i know it is very expensive and you can pass CS without it, but if you have the opportunity and dont want to take a chance of not passing (like me, because i wanted to make sure i participated in this match 2005-2006) then go for it and thats pretty much all you need. I only used this class and first aid for CS, i didnt get UW.
I took the 5 day class first, prepared for CS a total of 20 very intense days. I practiced a lot with my husband and a little with my mother in law  . After the kaplan class i felt very confident. I had fun during the CS exam which i took 10 days after the class.
the most important of all is PRACTICE. You already have all the knowleadge, you just have to apply it in a timely manner and be very kind and communicate well with your patients.
Good luck
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| chemamr
Moderator and PGY2
Topics: 703
Posts: 4,442
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alright drgaxmac!, well done, time is near!.
very nice post laloblum, it gives encouragement
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Any time something is written against me, I not only share the sentiment but feel I could do the job far better myself.
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| Lorena
Forum Elite
Topics: 9
Posts: 237
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oh i forgot... ARRIBA LAS CHIVAS !!!
and los tiburones rojos de Veracruz ! 
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| Medusin
Forum Elite
Topics: 17
Posts: 279
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Thank you for all your comments. I think you are right. Looking at things objectively, it is not the best idea to take STEP 1 right after your second year unless you are totally prepared for this clinical approach.
It is true that us IMGīs have to study more for this exam because of the lack of preparation for it. Technically, that IS the issue. Mexican med schools are not preparing their students to take the USMLE, except some international programs as someone mentioned. Well anyways, it can be done, we just have to make an extra effort and be the best we can be.
ĻSi no luchas por tus sueņos, ŋquien los hara realidad?Ļ
-Carlos Olivares
....oh and ARRIBA LAS CHIVAS!!!
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