joseangel
Forum Newbie
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how can an IMG afford the cost of the residency, is there any financial help from the institution or any kind of scholarship for IMG'S?
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 32
Posts: 4,655
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You get paid when you are in a residency - as first year, most get over $35,000 a year.
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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What about the cost of getting ECFMG certified, getting clinical experience in the US, applying for residencies, and traveling for interviews? And the years that may cost you? And the pain you can go through? And then, even if you persist, being the last person they would call? Unless you are really desperate in your home country, don't come here. It is a different place from what it was before 9/11.
Listen to my story: I passed Step 1 in 2001 with 99 points. Step 2 in 2002 with 95 points. Then, I failed the cS exam because my spoken English was not good enough yet. I applied to retake it, and got an interview in a program of my choice (Internal Medicine/Psychiatry combined) They told me to do an externship in psychiatry in Jamaica Hospital, New York City. I did it. (they interview you for this. They take only one out of 6 candidates they talk to. Then just getting an interview for the externship does not guarantee you will get the externship. I was lucky.) It was 5 months, full time (although a cheat in one of the rotations where they did not let you do anything, not even read the charts or talk to patients, nor just be an observer while the attendings saw the patients) I had to put up with some shit from some of those people (let them have their karma...)
Then I volunteered to work in a research team in Manhattan. Meanwhile, I had had some amazing interviews but failed the CS again by a little. To support myself I had to work as a nanny which was good because the family was very very nice. I did not mind getting up at 5 every day, not having a single free hour during work days and working like a beast. But the family moved and I got myself another job taking care of a man in a wheelchair. That was physically demanding, I could handle that, but the guy 1) was up until late at night and I got like only 5 hours of sleep each night, and worst of all 2) was more interested in my rear end than in having a reliable, serious help (which I am)
Summary I told him NO Way and then he fired me. I was homeless and went with friends from Argentina who had already kicked me out after I did the externship (but they helped me a lot anyway)
Eventually they kicked me out again and I got myself another job as a slave for a very obsessive-compulsive elderly lady who had just had surgery for a tumor. She was not a bad person, but she thought she was paying me too much (and complained about me in German over the phone) and made sure I earned every cent. I cleaned every corner of that house even before dust could build up again.
Thoughout most of this hell, I clinged to the research team because it gave me pleasure, and a reason to go on. But while I worked for the guy in the wheelchair I was overworked and often late, and my hospital boss got irritated with me and did not help me get into residency there (although I have higher scoresthan anybody else in there) and di not give me the job as paid research assistant, which she had previously promised to me.
Now I wish to finish writing an article about a topic I am very excited about, with another boss (thanks God!)
I would say- Think twice before you come. Here I am , 33 years old, ECFMG certified, with top scores, without a residency. All my friends in Argentina have finished residency, married, had children, or everything together. I suffer like JOB. I have nothing.
And besides, I have no guarantee that they are going to let me in at the airport if I come again for the next interview season (to start residency in 2006 if lucky). Last year when I came back from visiting my family the officers at JFK airport gave me a very hard time because I had been in the US for over a year on a B1 visa doing the externship etc, and now, it will be over two years, as a volunteer research assistant.
And you want the icing on the cake? I met a sweet guy dancing the tango, went out with him since Oct of last year, and then again, but because I don't know where I will be from now on, I broke up with him/
IS THIS WORTH IT? THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU COME
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| bbb
IM Program Coordinator
Topics: 32
Posts: 4,655
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It would be no different if I went to another country to work as a licensed professional. I would have to pass licensing exams to work in India, England or the Middle East.
Good luck
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bbb - trying to combine common sense and humour into realistic answers, but not going to guess on anyone's chances of getting into a position....
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| flormb
Forum Newbie
Topics: 0
Posts: 8
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esmeralda... estoy a punto de ir..tengo 25 aņos.... recien me recivo..me tiraste abajo!!!! poruqe no volviste antes?? la verdad tengo mucho miedo no solo por le timepo sino el dinero que estoy por invertir en esto
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hi! I am reall interested in people who took kaplan courses, please contact me. I'm planning to take one
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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Make your list of resources, including 1) financial. If your first language is not English, or you didn't grow up biligual (truly bilingual, not just reading and grammar like they teach you in school) you might consider paying KAPLAN expensive courses. In the end it might save you time, suffering and money. 2) alliances in the US. If you are alone it's extremely difficult. I needed to do an externship in the US and I wasted months e-mailing many hospiatls, and even with my scores nobody was willing to give me a chance. They said that because of insurance problems they were not going to take any foreign people.
Do not assume this is going to cost you just one year and 3000 $ (dollars) Put it closer to 2 yrs if you are lucky and 5000 $, 6000 to be more comfortable. And unless you ace the exams your chances are low. My study partner from Argentina was a tall, handsome Italian guy. He got low scores, applied to 100 programs, got only one interview, and with his charm and relatives' prayers got a pre-Match offer.(family practice, the easiest to get into, he liked Surgery but it was out of reach)
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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And talking about resources. The minimum cost of living here is 200 $ a month for food (and eating like a bird). Rent min 300 $. If you buy 2 tomatos they cost you 1.70 $. Then transportation. You need a car in any part of the US except for New York, where you spend about 85 $ a month in transportation. (unlimited Metrocard) Then any little thing is more expensive here than in Argentina. Interviews: 100 $ a night for hotel (not fancy) 200 $ for train, plane or whatever. You don't want to arrive tired to an interview. The best option is to check the internet (Yahoo travel, amtrak, greyhound) for lower fares IN ADVANCE. That means at least one month prior to your trip. Then your best bet is if you have an uncle, ask him for room and board, and pay back when you get into residency. Go to the KAPTEST website and check out the courses. They seem outrageous but in the long run they are worth the money. I spent far more by having to retake the test (and my TOEFL score was near perfect, 293 out of 300, would you believe it?) I started thinking I was a kind of Asperger disorder case. I am not. Good luck , but you will need the help from the angels if you are just a middle class Argentine.
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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PS the rules of this website require that you write only in English. Wie wuerde dir gefalllen, wenn alle Leuten hier Deutsch sprachen? scheusslich. Babel Tower! Remember: only English.
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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Beware too of the unwritten rules. They are different from what they post in the internet, but they are the real rules. For example, deadlines. You read that a certain program accepts applications until Dec 1. Reality: apply as soon as you can. By December 1, they have decided mostly who they are going to interview. By the end of December you know what you are (or are not) getting in terms of interviews. Unless you are an Ivy League graduate and have a cousin as Program Director. Then they might make an exception with you. Otherwise the unwritten rule is that for applying, the sooner the better. And before applying, be sure to have passed all your tests.
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| flormb
Forum Newbie
Topics: 0
Posts: 8
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yeah! you're right I'm just a middle class argentine, but I have a uncle who offerred me that thing that you've named, I am goiing to take a 9 month course at Kaplan, with a F1 visa but I dream to do it in one year..isn't it crazy?? probably I will need a angel but.. it?s too late... I have tickets for april 4th,  .
But I asked you why didn't you come back, because i think, if I fail i will be here in argentine the next year trying to get into a rasidency program, I m 25 years old, i think it isn't late, or yes??
thank you..but it seems that I'm making a big mistake... ( $$$$) :lol:
good luck!
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hi! I am reall interested in people who took kaplan courses, please contact me. I'm planning to take one
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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If you come with an F 1 it will be much better. If you will take all those Kaplan courses, you will pass. They don't guarantee that you get high scores, though. To get high scores, try to make sure that the information they ask for is what you have read. My first failure taught me this (second yr med school I failed a Physiology test because of using outdated textbook to study). To do well in a test, you have to use the right books. Preferably American textbooks (check out the list in First Aid for Step 1, ...) And preferably latest editions. If your uncle is a doctor he will help you too. But 30 years ago it was much easier to come from Argentina and find a good place here. Older Argentine doctors here don't know how much things have changed. Something else: start increasing your vocabulary. Keep an English dictionary next to your book. There are many words to learn in the USMLE practice tests. Natives use them every day and you are supposed to know them to do well in the multiple choice questions when there is no time and a short vocabulary might cost you the percentile. Read the health sections in Good Housekeeping. You will be amazed at how much the regular public knows and cares about health in this country. I used to read Harpers magazine but that'my taste.
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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And if there was no perk I would not be still here. In the USA when you have an idea you can actually test it, put it into practice, speak up, etc. In Argentina you can do much less. Here if someone else has your idea, you work together as a team. In Argentina you would be confronting professional jealousy and conservatism, and your chances would depend on being in the right clique. Here you have opportunity, as tough as it might be.
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| flormb
Forum Newbie
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Posts: 8
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Thank you for your time, it its very important to me,to find people from my country with some expirience in US. I will be trhere in one weak and I'll try to do my best... about my english..What do you think? do I need to take an english course too???I mean, besides the usmle ones...
Good luck
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| tacu tacu
Forum Newbie
Topics: 6
Posts: 16
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I am 25 years old too, from Peru, and I am gonna start my residency in Internal Medicine, Usmle steps demand a lot of effort and sacrifice, but i rellay think you can make it as i did
GL!!
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Henry Ford Internal Medicine PGY1
UAG 2004
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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If you can take an English course as well it will definitely help you. Pronunciation is very different from Spanish. My problem was too that I don't speak loud enough (I am very soft spoken).
The way they do the history and physical exam is also different from what we are used to. They expect much more interaction, more information exchange in the patient-doctor relationship. It might sound too bothersome for you, but ultimately helps a lot to read Bates' Guide to physical exam and history taking. You will like how they do the musculoskeletal exam (so simple and methodical! They never taught me like that in medical school!)
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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Congratulations Peruvian colleague. I just want to make the point that we do not compete on an equal basis here. Anyway I would love to find something. I mean a residency.
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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Hey tacu tacu Don't be misleading. I saw your other posts. If you have a green card you are actually NOT IN THE SAME BOAT AS WE ARE. I know people with USMLE scores much lower than mine who got in a dream hospital - what was the difference? They were US citizens. There you go. And I have seen plenty of websites of residency programs where they have only American graduates. I have called programs asking about criteria for applying and some of them require green card or US citizenship.
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| tacu tacu
Forum Newbie
Topics: 6
Posts: 16
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whatever!!!!!!!!
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Henry Ford Internal Medicine PGY1
UAG 2004
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| flormb
Forum Newbie
Topics: 0
Posts: 8
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HI!! Esmeralda, what can I do while studing at Kaplan?? I mean if I don't need to work..do I have to spend all my time studing??? I think that this situation only exist here in argentina..there, everybody work! can I attend any hospital with my F1 visa??
thank you , and good luck..
And be optimist!!!!
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hi! I am reall interested in people who took kaplan courses, please contact me. I'm planning to take one
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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Hello Flor
I read before starting to study for the uSMLEs an introductory book called "First Aid for Step 1" or so. Those are famous, you won't have trouble finding them. You can take the USMLEs in three different ways: 1)Just Pass (works for American graduates who don't plan to go into competitive fields) 2) Beat the mean (works for the sly foreign who married an American and therefore already has solved the visa problem), or 3) Ace the test (recommended for all foreigners or anyone who will need to compete very fiercely regardless of nationality, e.g. Surgery, Radiology, Dermatology)
I don't know if you read this well, but we , because of being from South America to make matters worse, fall into the third category.
Then if you can avoid working, DO dedicate yourself 100% or 130% to studying. Plus: if you exercise, it will improve your memory and resilience in stress situations.
I don't think the textbooks we used in medical school have much in common with what they use here. Shape up, this is a whole change of perspective. Embrace it!
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| esmeralda
Forum Junior
Topics: 3
Posts: 52
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Hello it is me again- hoping you won't do what I did wrong.
By September of each year is when it is best to have all your results including Step 2 cS, and the letters of recommendation. If you apply through ERAS as soon as the ERAS season starts, you increase your chances. I applied late (late October ) and without my CS results. that's not the way you do it.
And you have time, you are young, don't rush. Don't do like my study partner, with the macho Argentine pride, took the steps too fast and while working, scored too low and missed the chance to do Surgery, what he liked most. With or without Kaplan courses, take your time, don't try to make it for this year (September is too close) and aim instead for a 99 score, a better English, and a top-notch program. Making jewelry (or any other good thing) does not happen overnight. Good luck.
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| chemamr
Moderator and PGY1
Topics: 703
Posts: 4,441
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Hi, I think you/I/we must think what we want, of course itīs hard, difficult, you need a lot of time and money too, but I think the reward can be very good, so, just plan your time, money and efforts and you can get it. Iīm not either US citizen nor US resident, and I know my english isnīt excellent (as many other IMGs) but if thatīs your dream, try it !!!
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Any time something is written against me, I not only share the sentiment but feel I could do the job far better myself.
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| Dr Jeff
Forum Newbie
Topics: 0
Posts: 1
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It should be very clear from the above interaction that there is more to the story than just good board scores. Getting a job as an FMG is a game and you must understand the rules or you will never win.
Esmaralda, I would strongly suggest working with one of the for profit business to learn how to win. It is a tragedy and expensive to keep waiting and getting the run around when you dont even know what you are doing wrong. Cut your losses. Get over it. It is easier to take a few piano lessons to learn than to bang on the keys until you figure it out.
I do honestly wish you all the best
I will be happy to help you with specific questions.
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| UNET
Forum Junior
Topics: 7
Posts: 24
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hi esmaralda!
u r posts are interesting.u got excellent scores in two steps.
iam a beginner.dont know how to start my preperation.can u please help me with u r valuable suggestions.in which order should i study the subjects for step 1.i just started first aid.how to make use of it?
i have kaplan material for step 1.but its difficult for me to get CDs.
one more thing i wanna ask u is...abt step2 books.it s hard to get any kaplan material or so.i want to u suggest books that help me.
one more thing is,i could not get the difference between step2 cs and CSE.can u please explain?
thanks
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| Natasa
Forum Elite
Topics: 9
Posts: 291
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Esmeralda,
How can You be ECFMG certified if you hadn't passed step CS?Or have you done that in the meantime?
If you have,I believe you will have no troubles with getting a residency position this year,with your scores and all...
Good luck!
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