CL
Forum Junior
Topics: 10
Posts: 42
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I am writing this for a senior of mine. Applied for IM and combined IM/Neuro via ERAS in Mid Nov.
FMG, Non US citizen. Score 98/99 first attempts. No US clinical experience. 6 Yr post MD but entered med school at age 15 and always worked in teaching institutes, 4 Yr being in neurological institutes. Local letters of recommendation. Two published works in neurology (locally), I think both are case-series.
He applied to 30 University hospitals and received only rejections so far. I told him to apply to Community hospitals but he said if he was going to study in the US he wanted to make the most out of it because you are likely going to be an US IM resident only once in your life and he wanted to learn as much as he can.
I want to ask for generic advice and specific Qs:
1. Know any programs with good teaching faculty that are considered less desirable? I know he doesn't care about location, neighbourhood, pay, workloads, hours, chances of job offers or anything. Only teaching is important. (Teaching doesn't mean spoon/NG feeding of Harrison's. Just good conferences, ward rounds and approach to patients.)
2. No answers in 3 weeks: reviewing or rejection?
3. Combined programs: Possible for FMG?
Any advice is appreciated. I want to help him for I owed him so much for Step 1. Thanks.
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| bims
Forum Senior
Topics: 26
Posts: 118
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scores dont really mean too much for an img.university programs tend to avoid us except if you have an uncle working there who will get you in or something.if he doesnt know any one who can help,it may be difficult to get a univ program this match season because he applied quite late and more importantly because;
1) he doesnt have u.s clinical experience preferably years of it
2)no us letters of recommendation which you get when you have done 1 above
3)no u.s publications or research.
4)he doesn't have a green card
if he really desires only a university program and he doesnt get one this season,he has to boost his c.v with the above.his scores are stellar but they dont sway the p.ds in university programs these days especially when applying to im,peds etc.they dont want to take a risk.apparently they have had some very bad imgs in the past which makes them avoid us.
that said,it is not impossible to get into a univ program(i have two interviews in university programs but maybe it is becos i applied in pathology) i also applied to peds and no interview in university programs.only community.i do like his spirit though of only going for the best.it makes a lot of sense.he shouldnt give up yet though.he may still get some interviews.
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| niha14
Forum Newbie
Topics: 9
Posts: 22
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he has got great scores
he can apply to university programs like U Connecticut and U Mass ,U Chicago or PA especially if he does not have visa preference.
However i would sincerely advise him to consider good community programs. some are very good balance of education research and clinical.
faculty is more approachable and if he planning a fellowship will call up and put in a word for him if he applies for fellowship.
i feel its better to look at overall picture
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| bims
Forum Senior
Topics: 26
Posts: 118
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well i dont know about the rest but i know about u chicago.i had good scores 91/92.not as much as him but u chi rejected me in two specialties.also they rejected a friend of my with scores similar to CL's friend and he ws rejected in im.
hey maybe i shouldnt be discouraging him but i just recieved some bad news a few minutes ago.one of the univ programs i mentioned in my previous post just told me that they looked over my application again and found out that i am not ecfmg certified snd so they cannot interview me although they had already given me intervie.so maybe i am slightly bitter.
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| step12005
Forum Senior
Topics: 27
Posts: 122
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Hi bims,
I don't want to make you 'bitter' but I am very curious--how come you are not 'certified' since you've taken the exams? If they are totally two different things, do you know how to get certified? Thanks.
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| bims
Forum Senior
Topics: 26
Posts: 118
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hi step12005. to be ecfmg certified you must have passed step 1,step 2ck and step 2 cs and you must have your medical credentials verified by ecfmg.i have passed 1 and 2 ck and i did step 2 cs in mid october but all step 2 cs results are being delayed so all those who took that exam are not yet ecfmg certified,only those who took it while it was called csa are certified.
i dont anticipate my cs results to be released before end of february next year so i wont be ecfmg certified too soon.
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| bims
Forum Senior
Topics: 26
Posts: 118
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hi step12005. to be ecfmg certified you must have passed step 1,step 2ck and step 2 cs and you must have your medical credentials verified by ecfmg.i have passed 1 and 2 ck and i did step 2 cs in mid october but all step 2 cs results are being delayed so all those who took that exam are not yet ecfmg certified,only those who took it while it was called csa are certified.
i dont anticipate my cs results to be released before end of february next year so i wont be ecfmg certified too soon.
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| nonstopdoc1
Forum Senior
Topics: 14
Posts: 196
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Honestly speaking i dont really understand his philosphy. Does that means that u cant learn in a community program? Medicine has to be learnt from books and patients and u can have both while u r in any program. Univ program doesnt automatically makes u a good doc and on the other hand community hospital are also run by docs who know their subjects and are not that bad to say the least. Well, i have seen community hospitals that have patient load that can put any univ hospital to shame.
I admit univ hospitals give u better chances of fellowships and basic researchif u r interested in but as far as clinical research is concerened community hospitals are also doing it.
Than its good to be idealistic but its better to be realistic. Wasting years further makes u older grad and PDs think that what this guy was doint for all these years and why didnt he applied few years back.
Firstly He applied late than
he is an old grad
FMG and needs visa
No US lors
Univ hospitals (mostly) just dont accept fmgs no matter how stellar ur scores are. They just dont need us. They dont like hassles of sponsoring visas and they think that their reputation will be hurt incase they start accepting IMGs.
I too have about similar scores, fresh grad no USCE and still not certified yet. I applied to only H1 hospitals though it looks like i have to settle for J1 now but out of 13 i got only 1 is from univ hospital.
And i dont mind going to Community hospital infact i would give pref to a good community hospital above an average univ program cuz i know if u think u can do it than u can do it anywhere and everywhere.
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| retroviridae
Forum Guru
Topics: 29
Posts: 871
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Hey CL, what do you mean by combined programs? Look, I think most if not all university programs had their application deadlines pass today. So no matter what we tell you, it won't matter until next year. IMGs do get univeristy interviews and do match with them. It can be done. But everyone I know who does that has US CE. And that preferably as a student, not an observership. That is the one big thing lacking from your friends application. And like has been said, being an old graduate is a negative, even if he/she has been working since then. That will only get worse next year. There are excellent community hospital programs out there. It is something to consider. Otherwise, try again next year once he/she is ECFMG certified. It may or may not make a difference.
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| CL
Forum Junior
Topics: 10
Posts: 42
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Thanks for the replies... I think I will tell him to go for US Clinical Exp.
The thing that makes him only applying to U-based program is that he (also me) is totally clueless about what is a good program and what is not. We actually applied based on the IM books the universities have written... We think if they can write a book, they can also teach. If he knows community hospitals with good teaching, I know he'll go.
Combined programs are like... Med-Ped, Radio-Nuclear and Anat-Clinical Path. He plans to finish off with neurology, but he wants to study IM first.
Should he put down in his CV that right now he is the Chief Resident of Neurology but quits in his 3rd yr to go to the US, or is that better kept silent... Wondering. (He left the program but still works there as Chief Resident.... weird)
Thanks again.
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| CL
Forum Junior
Topics: 10
Posts: 42
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Err.... How does one apply for US Clinical Experience?
Today 3 more replies came, 2 rejections and 1 saying that they don't have an interview slot but will call him if someone cancels. It's the program he wants so l'm hoping somebody calls to cancel instead of simply not showing up.
I think the whole matching is more stressful than the exams. At least the exam is individual effort, but this ordeal is like your fate is in someone else's hands.
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| retroviridae
Forum Guru
Topics: 29
Posts: 871
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Hey, if he only applied to university programs that wrote the text books, he is probably applying to very competitive programs. In general, IMGs have better chances at universities in rural places (Midwest, South, etc.).
Yes, IMGs can get combined programs (I had several med-peds interviews), although those programs are more competitive than non-combined programs.
US CE is hard once you are not a student. Try and do an observership at a US university hospital. I don't know how you know which ones allow that, not all do. That may depend on the department more than the university.
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| acmd
Forum Newbie
Topics: 1
Posts: 3
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If he is interested in Neuro, he should have applied through San Francisco Matching program: he has to do IM anyway during the first year (transitional year). Most of the Neuro program participate in SF Match. That is an early match, so it's kind of late, especially because everything is done through mail, not electronically, but you never know...
GL
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| CL
Forum Junior
Topics: 10
Posts: 42
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Looks like he's going to throw in his towel and apply for USCE. This makes me feel bad, for when talking medicine I look like a thumb sucking babe compared to him. Now I'm also start to worry about what would happen to me next year.
Thanks everyone.
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